That’s a shame. If you bought new from dealer they should sort this out.
My ND5XS back in the day became faulty I think after 6 months. Explained to dealer and unit went back to base and I got brand new streamer. Excellent service from dealer and Naim.
I Would expect you to get the same service.
Interesting you mention “ too detailed”.
I think it’s very important to match these devices into a system that creates a good synergy.
I assume hearing a DCS into a great tube amplifier would garner amazing results. It’s only an assumption though.
Totally get you’re “system should make music”. This is my number one priority and my system does exactly that!
Exactly - these devices are all pretty much the same in terms of ‘detail’ and most if not all provide exception fidelity… Sure digital reconstruction filtering can vary (IIR vs FIR) to suit taste/personal preference - but I suspect for many if not most that won’t make much difference either … however when it comes to the analogue output interconnect - the impedance frequency response and load matching will be optimised for a particular interface - and here clearly Naim sources will be optimised for NACs to provide a specific house character - and other pre amps may be more hit and miss - or at least vary in aesthetic appeal.
I am surprised this is not discussed more on the forum - I know I have discussed it a few times. For example a Chord Electronics DAVE to me sounded not totally convincing into my previous 552… but plug a DAVE into a Chord Preamp and or in my case Chord Poweramp - it has a wonderful synergy. Interestingly I found the Hugo Mk1 sounded sublime into a 252 - and nearly as good into a 552 - if one set the output level specifically (turquoise)
Naim sources tend to sound best/optimum - in my humble opinion of course - into Naim NACs
It seems to me that you draw conclusions rather quickly!
Have you bought any dCS shares recently? 
Not liking the way dCS presents all these details does not imply that one does not like detailed music.
Perhaps, it’s not the details that are the problem but the way they are presented.
Everyone likes to have detailed music. But everyone likes it differently.
That’s why there are different brands.
DACs produced by dCS, Chord, Naim, MSB, CH Precision, Nagra or Soulution, all have their way of reconstructing music.
All claim to have the most natural and purest sound, all claim to be the closest to reality…
The truth is that they all have their strengths and weaknesses and all sound different.
So we choose according to our taste and preferences.
Although I found the sound produced by my system lacking at times, there is one thing I share with many: its addictiveness.
I too have lost track of time more than once.
I also share your opinion about the voices, they are wonderfully rendered.
It’s with voices that I start testing a system. If I don’t get connected, I don’t even bother trying the rest.
I probably could have found what I was missing with the Statement, but I put that option aside.
I found my happiness elsewhere, but I would have liked to keep my Naim system if I could. But we can’t have everything, can we? These things take up space.
Have been researching - and listening to - DACs fairly extensively for last few months. Will try to distill my impressions here since it seems broadly relevant to the discussion and others may find some interest.
Virtually all DACs used in high-end audio fall into one of two categories: either resistor ladder or delta-sigma.
(a) Designs based on resistor ladder (also called R-2R) chips are typically either based on the legacy Burr Brown PCM1704 family or a similar legacy design from Analog Devices eg AD1865, and delta-sigma designs are based on modern chips from AKM or ESS.
Key points about resistor ladder chips: (1) both the BB and the AD chips are long since discontinued as the industry moved towards delta-sigma convertors which are far cheaper to produce as they don’t require expensive precision laser trimming of on-chip resistor values; (2) both are ‘prized’ by some audiophile manufacturers for their ‘qualities’; (3) when used in high-end DACs the on-chip oversampling/filtering functions of these legacy chips are typically bypassed in favour of using a dedicated DSP chip (such as a Sharc chip in the ND555 and the Soulution 760) which will oversample/filter, with some using a ‘fancy’ spline interpolation algorithm rather than ‘plain old’ zero padding or using a pre-calculated compensation algorithm to correct for the phase errors introduced by filtering. Examples of high-end DACs using legacy resistor ladder chips include Naim ND555, CH Precision C1, Soulution 760; (4) in an attempt to overcome the intrinsic linearity issues which ladder chips manifest, multiple ladder chips are typically used for each channel eg 2 or 4 or 6 or more (paralleling the chip outputs averages the linearity errors of each chip). There are other ways of dealing with the intrinsic linearity issues; for example, the CH Precision C1 has a function which can be invoked to pass a known signal through the DACs chips, measure the output, compare that output to what it should be and then calculate an ‘offset’ which is added to the input signal in order to ‘counteract’ the measured linearity error.
Variation on resistor ladder theme: ‘discrete’ resistor ladder DACs such as TotalDAC which work on the same principle but replace the resistor ladder chip with a set of resistors laid out on a circuit board. No oversampling, no filtering. Schematically simple. MSB DACs are very similar, using a set of ‘modules’ which seem essentially to be discrete resistor ladder arrays. Aries Cerat DACs use legacy Analog Devices chips, parallelled, with no oversampling, no filtering.
(b) For audiophile / high end pieces, delta-sigma designs use ‘premier line’ chips from ESS (eg Sabre 9038PRO) or AKM.
Key point about the delta-sigma chips: they are cheap and ubiquitous, used in everything from that tiny Apple dongle (which converts the lightning output of your iPhone into a stereo minijack for connecting your earphones) to the digital audio workstations used in studios. Examples of high end DACs in this category include Ideon Absolute, Merging NADAC and many others.
Variation on delta-sigma theme: dCS’ Ring DAC which is more or less the same thing as a high-end delta-sigma chip but has its current sources (‘latches’) laid out as discrete components on a circuit board (rather than all being integrated on the convertor chip itself), fed by a signal processing ‘mapper’ on a FGPA which oversamples and filters the incoming signal.
I’ve now listened to most of the DACs listed above and my distinct impression is that, assuming the amps and speakers are good enough to reveal differences between them, those differences are really not big. And it may be that any differences which are present are mostly due to (a) differences in the power supply to the digital and analog sections of the DACs and (b) the quality of the post-convertor analog sections of the DACs. This may be why so many of the high end manufacturers make a song-and-dance about esoteric, complex, over-specified power supply arrangements (Ideon Absolute, Naim ND555 for example) or opt for incorporating tube amplification stages (Lampizator, Nagra, Ypsilon, Aries Cerat) as a means of deliberately imparting a sonic signature which wouldn’t otherwise be present (as intrinsic differences in the ‘sound’ of different convertor technologies - resistor ladder versus delta-sigma - are minimal). It has been my experience, over the last few months of auditioning, that the line stage / power amps in use have a bigger influence on the sound than do different DACs (Since Xmas, I’ve listened to Naim ND555, CH Precision C1, Soulution 760, Ideon Absolute, Lampizator Pacific, TotalDAC d1-seven, Nagra Tube DAC, dCS Rossini + Clock, dCS Vivaldi Apex DAC, MSB Premier, T+A DAC8 DSD). Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons. (post-script - I see that Simon raised some aspects of what I have written).
I for one am interested in your aural experiences with the above. I am sure Solution would probably work for me, but at a cost. I am still youngish (25 more work years ahead) so maybe in the future… DCS/Chord did not. I am more than happy to keep the ND555 for the foreseeable future of course but your views would make interesting reading.
The TotalDAC d1 direct seems interesting due to the lack of output stage, the output coming direct from the ladders. I havent seen that implemented anywhere else.
No shares in dcs, thanks
You seem to be the one jumping to conclusions
I went on to mention other stuff in my post but you don’t mention that, just the bits you want to try and argue about it seems.
We all know naim sources have a particular sound to them, its been going on for decades and carries on today with the solstice etc, nothing wrong with that as i said in my other post, but lets not try and say its the most neutral
As i also said the details are there if you want them, you just need to release them, whether you like all the extra that you now hear, i can’t say, but its there.
I don’t care one bit what anyone buys, owns on this forum or anyother, i just say what i know and feel, i have said time and time again we are all different and like different things, but sometimes we all need to lift our heads out the box and take a look at what is out there, rather than become blind and blinked, thats all.
I think I know what you mean. I have heard systems that are highly detailed but with a clinical presentation that just isn’t enjoyable. I didn’t think DCS was clinical mind you. I think I still prefer the Naim sound overall but would quite enjoy a little of the DCS air in the presentation.
Not the only manufacturer to do this. TD build quality is not a strong point. Fairly cheap casing. No dealers but you can arrange return for a refund if you’re not happy. See the website.
You raise a good point. I have always been a proponent of synergy and I guess staying within the Naim ecosystem maintains that. I am sure there are some great non-Naim/Naim pairings out there but I have never relished the idea of endless experimentation. I guess there is a certain amount of added value in that, for non-tinkerers at least.
It certainly isn’t the most aesthetically pleasing piece and they havent invested much in the web site! That said, it does seem to be well regarded - it really peaked my interest when I saw Taiko had supplied it to testers of their SGM Extreme. I wouldn’t have expected poor build quality for the price though, thanks for the feedback.
Great post by the way, very informative. I echo @Steve interest in hearing your thoughts about the way they sound, if you ever feel the urge to share.
EDIT: Vincent from TotalDAC mentioned Focal using the one of their DACs to demo their “best headphones” for the last 2 years at the Munich show. If thats the case, it’s interesting they didn’t use the Focal headphone amp.
I have heard DCS Rossini and Linn Klimax DSM on a same system, and although Lumin X1 and Naim Nd555 on a same system.
I found the sound very different for each dac in the same system :
The DCS was more dynamic, detailed and upfront vs the Linn KDSM. More demonstrative and spectacular. But I however much preferred the Linn, because the sound was more cohesive, organic, and refined.
The Lumin vs the Nd555: The Lumin, at half the cost, was more dynamic, specially on drums and percussions. There was more details too, and the voices were better defined.
But the Naim was more addictive to me, more propulsive and organic.
So I would say that more is not necessary better.
Excellent post Billy,care to share your conclusions as to which you prefer?
I have read many great reviews of the Grim/Mola Mola combo on Audiophile style forum. Nowhere for me to demo any of these great Dac/streamer combo’s,along with the ones Billy listed unfortunately.
How do you know the Grimm beats anything when it comes to streaming ?
Did you compared with Auralic, Lumin, DCS…transports ?
The quite unanimous verdict, from what I read, goes more towards the Taiko SGM extreme.
I have to confess that despite what I said, I am very interested by the Grimm MU1 . It has an SPDIF and I could connect it to the Nds/555dr used as a dac. It has also 2 TO ssd or 3 TO . I could sell my Melco and use the Grimm with my Nds. Instead of selling my Nds for a ridiculous low price and buy an Nd555 second hand, which is still very expensive ( around 13 k euros).
Do you think I could use the Grimm without using Roon?
Is the Spdif good on it?
Hi Billy
That’s a very interesting post.
You have done some great research and listening tests this year.
Were all your comparisons done in dealers’ listening rooms?
These are useful for comparing dacs in that particular system and room.
One thing I’ve found is that any conclusions reached in a dealer’s room may not apply in the same way if you transferred those 2 dacs to your own listening room at home.
This is because of several factors:
I find that what may be small differences at shows and dealerships can become more salient when the same components are installed at home in one’s familiar system.
Jim