ND555 technical relevance?

Crikey, has it been that long? Taken into that context my NDX 2 is starting to feel like a bit of an old banger already…:eyes::thinking::rofl::flushed:

You mean it’s just about run-in.

G

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But lets be honest, by design the current ND555 uses outdated and superseded DAC technology/chips… they are chosen because Naim designers know how to get them to work and sound just as they want.

So you have a leading premium current product using many innovative techniques - yet using outdated DAC chips…

So I think its fair to say you have to look at the product as a whole - and not just specific elements of it - to determine whether it is outdated… and of course, just because something is newer, doesn’t necessarily mean it’s better

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Thats right its a new dac board that also has an upgraded analog output stage thats been re worked.
But we did get also get a free upgrade last week to the streaming side of things and i am likening what it has done.
dCS do like to keep things up to date and look after its range of products with nice free upgrades and also expensive ones like the apex, but no one is forcing you to have its just progress and takes the rossini to a new high level of performance

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A streamer is more than the dac inside it. But my experience with Naim is not great, the Wi-Fi on my NDX 2 stop working 7 months after I purchased new in store and now needs servicing, that will take months to arrive again.

It’s not that great with DSD for the price I expected a lot better performance on DSD, and Naim apparently hates MQA, in some countries Tidal and Apple Music are the only High Res streaming services available, but also the streamer has no USB in for computer and no balanced outputs. So is not the most versatile streamer.

Is not all positives, but for PCM they are great performers and have good software stability, the software is also good enough.

Contacting support in email gives no reply from the brand, that gives some doubts about support.

If it lasts 20 years I will be more than happy with it, but if it brakes every 7 months I will sell it and look another way.

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I would be interested to know when the NDs will be updated to read DSD256 so I can listen to Rachel in native format.

I doubt it will ever happen. And even if it were technically possible, would it make sense?

The ND555 uses PCM1704 chips. Which, as the name suggests, have been designed to read the PCM format. They do not, and never will, read DSD natively.

DSD streams are transcoded to PCM by the DSP ; Downsampled, filtered, upsampled and finally passed through the DAC as if it were PCM. In short, it’s all a noisy mess.

All this is well explained on the white pages of the ND555.

Reading DSD on a DAC designed to read PCM doesn’t make much sense to me. Especially since pure DSD recordings are extremely rare.

Most of the DSD offerings are not really DSD. The sound is captured in DSD, but then transcoded to PCM for mastering, and finally transcoded back to DSD.

Soulution, in its flagship 760 DAC also uses Burr Brown chips, which are chips made to read PCM.

The 760 can play DSD128, just like the ND555, but Soulution does not recommend DSD and communicates this quite clearly. Naim doesn’t…

If for some reason I was a DSD fan, I would have opted for a Merging DAC.

Merging is a Swiss company that specialises in DSD recording. A lot of sound engineers use their products for recording, converting, mastering, etc. For a few years they have been producing an excellent DAC that reads DSD natively.

This is basically the same as playing a recorded track on the devices used for recording. You can’t beat that.

An alpinist friend of mine worked for Merging for 10 years. I asked him about Merging DACs. What I’m about to say is worth all the reviews. He told me that to playback DSD recorded/converted by their devices, it’s simple, there is no better, whatever the price.

So if you’re craving for Rachel in DSD then the Merging NADAC is the way to go :wink:

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Expensive Sonates then. I might have to stay with Isabelle if I don’t want to go Organik. :slight_smile:

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My comment above is a bit off topic. And I don’t want it to be misinterpreted.

To the question is the ND555 an already or soon to be obsolete product. The answer is clearly no!

We won’t go into technical details. Let’s be honest, I understand very little about DAC design and most of the members of this forum are in the same situation. But it seems clear to me that the DAC part of the ND555 is a masterpiece of implementation and optimization.

The streamer part of the ND555 can receive data via UPnP which is an old protocol and will continue to operate for a long time. For playing locally stored music, I don’t think we’ll see the day when this protocol is abandoned for good.

As for Roon and online music, well, the ND555 is in the same boat as every other streamer on the market.

The naim dacs have always sounded nice and will continue to sound nice till it breaks, its not the last in the line for detail or ultra wide sound stageing, but it does a good job if thats the sound you are wanting, but going forward obviously things will change with the dacs as the chips have been discontinued some time ago now, so a new direction will be needed for the next models

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This does not diminish the value of the ND555.

I was able to compare the ND555 to the Soulution 760 which is among the best DACs available on the market.

I compared them in my listening room, with my speakers. Not in a show room or exhibition (which at best gives an idea of the product).

Although the Soulution 760 is clearly a better DAC, and by a good margin, the ND555 (with 2x555PS) is still an extremely good streamer with an immersive and lively sound!

One really has to put a lot of money to get better, not just different.

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I didn’t say it did.

The next model that naim brings out will have that effect on value, or if something new and great comes to the streaming market and it can’t run it, just like what happened to the NDS

If Naim produces something better, then obviously it will be better.

But that the ND555 is better than the NDS, in terms of sound performance, is no surprise.

The ND555 is part of the 500 series whereas the NDS is part of the S series, just like the CDS and the CD555.

The ND555 is bound to be less good than a Statment series streamer.

If there is an ND556 then that is another story.

But I don’t believe Naim will be producing an ND556 anytime soon.

The ND555’s performance is, and will probably remain, very good within its market segment.

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I think the sensitivity and virtuosity that Rachel puts into her Rosary also shines nicely in 24/192. But I would be curious to hear it in DSD.

Apart from any debate on formats, DSD is the format chosen by the sound engineer. And that’s the way he wanted it, so I guess that’s the way he’d want us to hear it.

I’d be curious to hear Rachel’s DSD recordings on a Merging NADAC.

As for Isabelle we have the SACD and the 24/96 version (which I was lucky enough to buy before it was taken off the Qobuz catalogue). I believe you have it too.

ND555 + 2PS €38000 Mature product, software updates offered, limited flexibility outside Naim system.

DCS Rossini Apex + Rossini clock €39000 Latest product, software and hardware upgradeable (where possible), wider range of connectivity options.

Taiko Extreme + TotalDac D1 Direct €44000. Leading edge tech, software and hardware updates/upgrades, modular design for connectivity options.

A price difference yes, but the last is also in different league in terms of performance and future proofing, possibly…

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I have enjoyed Naim streamers over the years, US, UQ, NDX, and NDS…

To my non-technical mind (& IMHO), the ND uses obsolete technology, is expensive (with PSU’s) and at some point will depreciate rapidly/be replaced/be outclassed…why would I buy one ?

There looks to be some very good alternative options to consider (as you have already identified)…for me, after the NDS, I went to a Linn streamer, their Organik DSM streamer is damn good - my ‘compromise’ was to get a Klimax DSM/2 Katalyst, then will upgrade it to an Organik dac when available…on the basis that it should be a cost effective route and nearly as damn good.

Only my opinion…

Good luck in your ponderings.

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Couldn’t agree more with the last 2 posts.
But as always everyone is free to do as they want, i didn’t think the nd555 was worth investing in over 3 years ago, as it was old tec really when it was new and in today’s market even more so

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Apart from the DAC chip, which is only a small fraction of what a DAC really is, and which only partly contributes to the sound produced by the DAC, what is old tech or obsolete?

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That’s an alternative worth considering. The price difference isn’t that big.

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I’m very happy with my NDS. Qobuz added via Roon

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