Keith, to be fair, there was, according to Naim, a not insignificant amount of optimisation and refinement in the ND555 over the NDS in the i2v and related analogue stages as well as the digital domain signal chain to enable the ND555 to match or surpass the prowess of the CD555 which the NDS didn’t quite have for 44.1/16 according apparently to some at Naim. (I guess the clue is also in the product title). However this obviously doesn’t mean it is necessarily so for your ears and preferences.
The digital front end module (NP800) developed by StreamUnlimited Engineering GmbH for Naim was a re architecture common to all the then new streamers, not just the ND555.. this was more about capability, stability, consistency and flexibility as a streamer rather than outright sonic performance.
I don’t disagree. I have heard the ND555 in my system for one evening, shortly after its launch, and it does sound much better than the NDS. The problem is it’s such a lot of money. So much more than the NDS, even before used values collapsed. I’m not even saying it’s overpriced (although the recent price rise is a bit of a shocker). I just think the OP has raised legitimate concerns. I would have been very happy if Naim could have offered an upgrade like they did for DR or an NDS2 with two burndy connections.
The alternatives are also expensive. Buying a less expensive Naim streamer and using it with a high end DAC will get expensive too, even without a separate PS. Maybe one day I’ll buy a used ND555 when it’s no longer the current model. Perhaps prices will fall if/when Naim dump the green lights and logos.
I would be more concerned about the Grimm Audio streamer as it’s totally reliant on Roon. At least the Naim streamers have more strings to their bows.
Keith - you do open up an interesting can of worms that possibly is not that appropriate to discuss on this Naim funded site - sure the higher end Naim can be relatively expensive albeit they work and perform very well… of course there are alternatives that are subjectively as good, possibly even preferable to some tastes, that are not Naim that cost less, and some of those also continue to be hand built in the UK by impassioned designers and employees… so the market decides through consumer choice … I guess its great to have this sort of choice locally
Does the ND555 use the 1702 Dac chips, or is it 1704?
The reason I ask is I stumbled across this thread on the head-fi forum where this guy did a head to head of his Soulution 560 (43k) Dac, which I believe Thomas just bought, with an old Wadia 27ix Dac and CD transport.
He said the old Wadia was just so much more musical than the Soulution. He also had a Mola Mola Tambaqui that he had just purchased to compare to it.
In the end he went with the over 20 year old Wadia, which was around 14k when new, top tier back then.He said the Wadia just makes music, as opposed to the Mola Mola and Soulution that dig every detail out of the mix, but ultimately were lifeless in comparison.
Interesting stuff, makes you wonder how much better newer Dac’s really are.
The Wadia 27ix uses the 1702 Dac chip.
Well I suppose I have stayed loyal to Naim by Roonifying my NDS. I guess I’ve ended up with the NDS2 that I wanted or perhaps NDS1.5
There might be other tweaks that can help ye olde streamer without making a five figure investment. The Network Acoustics ENO looks interesting. Or maybe I’ll crack and buy a used or ex demo ND555.
After performing some research on other forums with Grimm Audio end users/customers, they have it on good authority from the manufacturer that UPnP server is on its way in 2022.
Good news!
However , for me, it’s difficult to predict how well this transport will work with an Nds/555 dr used as a dac, connected in SPDIF.
There’s also the similar price APL streamer, which is built upon the Auralic Aries but improved with linear ps and a better clock.
I see 3 possibilities today to upgrade the Nds: second hand Nd55, Grimm MU1 or APL transports.
To be honest with you, I would not personally want to use this with an NDS or for that matter an ND555.
I am thinking of the future, and pairing it with a suitable DAC.
I find it interesting that these manufacturers with the latest servers are dropping/suggesting do not use USB as the carrier/signal but use AES or i2s which were built specifically for audio in the first place.
I know there are many USB users out there but let’s face it they are having to optimise all manner of things/hardware to remove unwanted artifacts present with USB. I would personally want to use the best/correct Audio interface possible designed for audio.
The NDS and ND555 are designed primarily to get their signal from LAN so I understand users wanting the best network switch possible.
The Grimm and Antipodes servers manufacturers recommend AES or i2s as the signal carrier as this is where their research, design and build is focussed on.
Would using one as a source to NDS or ND555 improve their performance, I don’t know. Would make for a great test/home demo challenge though!
You may be right, AES or i2S are often cited as the best connections with transports. But SPDIF can be very good too. Naim make very good SPDIF inputs.
I would effectively prefer to have a more dedicated dac, but didn’t have found one that involved me. Neither DCS or Chord. Neither the Sabre dac inside the Lumin. Neither Solution I heard many times.
So it’s not easy.
I heard recently Eera , French dac. Liked it. But it was in different system, with Antipodes streamer.
But if your goal is to use Roon in the mid to long term, and possibly listen to music online, then I think you should sell the NDS while it has some value.
If you want to stay with Naim, you should use their streamers as is. In that respect the NDX2 or ND555 are good options.
Tinkering with your NDS will eventually cost you money. Money that you could have invested in an NDxxx.
The other option is of course to go with another brand and split the DAC and streamer. This is the path I chose.
Hopefully the next naim dac/streamers will be able to do dsd properly as that is starting to take off these days with more and more being released in it and already at 1024 and looks to be where its heading
There is certainly much more than that and it looks to be on the up.
Why care? Well apparently it brings the most analog representation of any digital dac, plus its oversampling can bring good benefits, have a read about it as its interesting.
Most new dacs on the market these days can read it up to a certain oversampling point.
