,Having a NDS with 555DR PS and loving it but reading about the dramatic impact of adding a second PS and its cost has me wondering about the comparative impact of upgrading to a 555 Streamer. Has anyone made this sonic comparison?.
There’s about a $6000 CAN increased cost of upgrading assuming I can find a used 555 streamer, but there are some savings in not requiring an upgraded front end for the NDS and skipping Roon and sticking with Tidal or QOBUZ directly. ( my set up is similar now to @simon.pepper who runs a NDS Roon via UPnp and Sonore Ultrarendu arrangement. ) It’s the best I’ve tried including an attempt to use a NDX2 as a transport via Naim DC1 amongst others.
it’d be cheaper in black box cost to try the second PS but the 555 would allow for elimination of the Sonore products and perhaps Roon as an intermediary. Unlike some others I don’t use locally stored libraries. Also a bit more future proof.
I went from NDS with 555PS to NDXS2 into NDS as DAC, 555PS. Then ND555 with 2 x 555PSDR.
It’s your money and your choice. ND555 similar sound to my ears, but others find it different to NDS.
2nd PS yielded more detail and definition.
ND555 has latest streaming platform so less boxes and hassle. Get one used.
I would get the ND555 first then 2nd 555PSDR to make life easier and future proof. It saves the faff of extra boxes.
If sound quality is your priority first then get 2nd 555PSDR first off.
Ideally get both. There’s a few on here with NDS and 2 x PSs. I am sure they will chip in. There’s also a few like myself who have gone from NDS to ND555.
When I used my ND5XS2 with the NDS and 555PS it was very good indeed and could be another option.
But having separate & modern hardware undertaking the integration to the internet streaming services, internet Radio etc. you are future proofed. And potentially more so than a ND555 upgrade.
The platform for the Roon Core is updated regularly for any changes with Tidal, Qobuz etc. and it is easier to change/refresh to up-to-date CPU, RAM, SSD than any proprietary hardware configuration.
Roon Server is not going to drop support for Squeezelite, as required for the SonoreUPnP (RooUPnP, LMS2UPNP etc.) as there are too many Roon users dependent on it. Plus it is ‘done’ there have been no changes or updates in this area for over 10 years. I was a Beta Roon user back in 2015.
So with the NDS acting solely as a UPnP renderer, there is no requirement for it to support the latest versions of anything. It is far from internet facing, no certificate updates to be concerned about.
I can only recommend a 2nd power supply for the NDS, separating supply to Socket 1 (Digital) and Socket 2 (Analogue output stage).
There is less strain on the power supplies & the noise floor involved drops.
But @Dan_M the OP has already tried a NDX2 into the NDS and found that retaining the NDS as a UPnP only renderer via the Ethernet input (and not the S/PDIF input) is better.
I run three Musos g2 as well as my main system and it is important to me that they are all in sync. I went through all sorts of permutations and swearing. I have ended up with a ND5 XS2 as the transport which gives me all the connectivity and streaming capabilities, including Roon
I kept the NDS and added a second PS555 to my existing one, both non DR. For me this has been absolutely the best decision, as I prefer the sound signature of the NDS DAC which I find more engaging. All my other equipment is olives, which may give you an idea of my SQ taste. I was surprised at the SQ difference of adding the ND5 XS2 and blown away by the 2nd PS555.
The downside is the number of boxes, however I am fortunate as I have everything separate well ventilated room.
Clearly the NDX2 → NDS using S/PDIF, which is how ND5XS2 → NDS would also function, is bettered by the SonoreUPnP → NDS configuration.
Have you tried a UPnP Bridge solution to be able to offer side-by-side comparisons to underpin your recommendations to the OP?
The OP is wondering whether a 2nd PS to the NDS, when used with the SonoreUPnP → NDS offers better value than an upgrade to an ND555, which frankly offers poorer SQ through Roon (according to many here on this forum) and is still hampered by firmware issues (well documented here also).
My recommendation based on a current NDS with 2 PSU in a SonoreUPnP → NDS configuration (also tested against a S/PDIF based input configuration in a side-by-side comparison) is to improve the quallity of the NDS processing with the 2nd PSU.
This is over an expensive upgrade to a ND555, which offers the same processing architecture, same DAC chip technology, the addition of a tiny colour screen and new remote, builtin Roon support but at a lower SQ than the UPnP input, up-to-date Tidal & Qobuz support but using on-board processing which lowers the SQ, plus where Naim can’t get the firmware working properly for over 18 months now.
All good @simon.pepper. Now read post you highlighted.
I have not tried Sonore bridge as you know what route I have taken. Bit technical and complicated for me. But if you are getting better results all credit to you.
Obviously using the S/PDIF input you’re at the mercy of the transport. Whilst we weren’t perhaps quite as affected by the firmware issues as some, it has been clear that each naim firmware changes the SQ of the NDX2 in subtle ways even when used only as a transport.
Whereas using the ethernet input bypasses this, and uses the input the NDS was optimised for.
However, on other recent threads there has been feedback that adding an external transport to NDS also improves local streaming (versus ethernet).
So as I say, an interesting result. Wonder if it is Roon specific in that Roon client (libraries/implementation) on naim streamers comes into play. Has anyone tried Sonore-ethernet-NDX2-S/PDIF-NDS vs Sonore-Ethernet-NDS to see if NDX2 using uPnP input (not Roon client) has a similar detrimental effect on SQ vs NDS local streaming?
But I have tried Roon → UltraRendu/UltraCap LPS in RoonReady mode (USB output) → USB to S/PDIF converter (XMOS 208 self powered so from the UltraCap LPS) → NDS on the digital input.
Effectively this is the same/similar function as an NDX2 or ND5XS2 providing an S/PDIF feed to the NDS.
And the Ethernet UPnP input was better as @Mpaletta01 also experienced.
I bought a used nd555 that came with a 555 ps. As I already had the nds / 555 I tired the second 555 (both DR) on the NDS before switching to the ND555.
Definitely an uplift with 2 x 555 on the NDS. and very worthwhile to get the absolute most out of the NDS.
I did eventually sell the NDS as I preferred the weight and authority of the ND555 but the NDS with 2x 555 was close in performance.
The U2-Mini with the iFi Elite is an excellent streaming platform. I tried several other PS with the Mini, including the Farad 3 with upgraded fuse, expensive DC cable, $400 power cord and it did not sound anywhere as good as using the Elite Mini with a generic power cord.
The U2-Mini stomped all over a Bluesound N130, also with external LPS.
Adding a 2nd power supply to the NDS should not be considered until a top class streamer is also used.
When I had the NDS on trial for a couple months, I preferred using a SBT/LPS as a digital source rather than the NDS LAN input.
I always struggled to square off the cost difference versus improvement of NDS versus ND555.
To my ears the ND555 is better but not £12k better! I only pulled the trigger as I got a good deal on a used one. Now it has all settled in I’m glad I made the change.
Re point above I found adding a second 555 to my NDS was very worthwhile.
Having had a SqueezeBox and a SBT, both used with a Chanel Islands LPS into a Pink Triangle DAC, the output was inferior to the ND5XS I replaced them with.
Plus the then use of the Naim nStream app was superior to iPeng. Plus moving to dedicated hardware for the UPnP server indexing the files on a NAS, over LMS running on a NAS was a major step up.
This was then bettered with a NP5XS on the ND5XS, which was replaced by the NDS but for a while with the NP5XS, before a 555DR PSU. Now dual power supplies on the NDS separating the Analog/Digital. The UPnP server is still on a RPi2, but the main source is now Roon.
