NDS, Apple Music, Muso v1 not in sync

I wonder if anyone has a solution. I am fed up with glitches and lack of availability on Tidal. They also clearly sell mt data as when I stream certain artists they immediately apear in my social media feed.

Currently I use an NDS, Roon and a Squeezebox streaming device which allows my main system to play in perfect sync, its a bit of a hack but works perfectly. This mainly uses Tidal.

I also use Apple music which I prefer, on an iPad this plays perfectly in sync with the 3 musos but there is a delay which is variable and worsens with my main system the NDS. The NDS is connected to the Apple music ipad by an airport which goes though a switch and ethernet into the NDS.

I cannot use the main NDS system and the Musos at the same time as the delay is horrible and ruins the experience:

Any ideas?

AirPlay, like any multiroom system, supports synced playback on multiple devices, but the NDS, like all the 1st gen streamers, never supported it, so the workaround you are using with the Airport Express inevitably adds latency with the extra steps in the signal path.

Connecting your iOS device to the NDS USB port and using Naim multiroom would give you synced playback on all devices.

Have you tried the ‘Zone Delay’ setting in Roon?
So you may have to delay the Zone with the Musos, to allow the NDS to process the AirPlay format

Thanks this would be great but unfortunately it looks like I have a faulty USB port! Grrrr…

Thanks, yes I have but unfortunately it is not fixed and drifts in and out of time.

Sadly after persuing this option with Naim it is not possible; they have been exrtremely helpful. Here is the conclusion from Naim:

it seems that the operating system of the Mac Mini is too complicated for the NDS to read, so you will not be able to multiroom the signal, as you would from a USB flash drive. The issue is, if the NDS is able to read the file itself, it can process and send it via the multiroom function, but if the signal is being sent, then it would need to come in via an analogue or digital input. And these inputs cannot multiroom the signal they’re receiving.

If you’re trying to read from the Mac mini, as if it was a connected USB flash drive, then the file path would need to be simple, and the operating system on the Mac mini appears to be too complicated for this to be an option.

You previously said you were using an iOS device, but now you mention a Mac. It’s the former that is officially supported into the USB port of a 1st gen streamer, a Mac won’t work.
Having said that, it’s been some time since I’ve used a 1st gen streamer and I’m not 100% sure that multiroom is supported when using an iOS device, although it is when using the same USB port with a memory stick.

Yes you are absolultey correct, sorry for the confusion. You are absolutely correct, the USB will play the music stored on an iOS device and perfectly in sync. Unfortunately that is not what I was trying to achieve; I want to use the stremaing of Apple Music.

I really like their playlists and am a fan of Elton John’s show where he plays a fantastic vareity of music, and Nile Rogers has a great show as do others. Thus I was trying to use the Mini Mac, which I could do but not in multiroom or brings me back to the original problem of the latency using an airport into the NDS

So sadly I think there is no way I can achieve my goal.

So you’ve tried Apple Music on an iOS device (iPhone, iPad) into the USB port and that doesn’t work?

What happens is the NDS treats the iOS as a memory stick. The only way to play is to use the NDS interface. You can’t even use the Naim app, of which I am not a great fan.

You cannot use the iOS device interface to instruct the NDS. So unfortuntately I am stumped!

1st gen streamers don’t treat iOS devices like memory sticks. They are officially certified by Apple as ‘Works with iPhone’ devices and last time I tried it was still possible to use Apple Music into them via USB.

OH that is very interesting. There is nothing like that in the NDS manual . I will ask Naim unless you have any ideas?

On second thoughts, I might possibly be wrong about this! All the other 1st gen streamers, and the NDAC, support iTunes playback via USB, but now you mention it I vaguely recollect that perhaps the NDS was not given that functionality.
If that’s the case I can only guess that Naim were focussed on sound quality when developing their flagship streamer and chose not to add features that weren’t going to provide top notch sound. Along much the same lines as their decision not to support AirPlay on any of their 1st gen streamers.

Anyway, to confirm this all you have to do is connect any iOS device to the USB port and see what happens. Apologies if I’ve led you up a blind alley by describing features that work perfectly well on an NDX…

Thanks. Yes as described I tried and the NDS just treated it as a memrory sticky

I remember trying my ND5XS with an iPod connected via the front USB and there was full integration.
I have never tried with the NDS, but will give it a test later and report back.

I can sync 4 endpoints for playback, but these are all Chromecast based, and are the playback devices I have in my upstairs - bedroom, study, 2 bathrooms. However I can’t combine with the NDS ‘downstairs’ as this is a Squeezebox based endpoint for the SonoreUPnP bridge.

Thanks Simon. Yes I use the Sonore Bridge with Roon, this works well. However no Apple music.

I suppose a cheap but slightly messy solution would be to connect an Airport Express to each Muso and use AirPlay multiroom, which I assume would then play in sync.
Of course, the proper way to do it would be to trade the NDS for an ND555 :sunglasses:

So, plugged my iPhone into the USB port on my NDS & enabled the input.

The NDS via the Naim app was able to navigate to some legacy iTunes content on my iPhone, as if it was an iPod.

Interesting I was able to stream from Roon ARC into the NDS, as I do in the car with the legacy iPod there.
So Apple Music playback from an iOS device should be possible.

Is this something the NDS and earlier streamers can do that the later generation streamers can’t, given they expect this connectivity to be AirPlay based.

The physical connection with an iOS device will top out at 24/48 ALAC format.

I don’t believe this type of rash expensive behaviour is warranted