NDX2 disappointment

Streaming Audio
1

First ever post, anywhere, ever. Just wanted to share my frustrations. I have 300DR, 282 and other Naim boxes, a Melco hard drive running Dynaudio Confidence 20s. I recently traded in an NDX1 for an NDX2 with separate power supply believing it to be an upgrade in sound quality, function and convenience. I was wrong.

I live in an old cottage with no ADSL broadband. Thick walls and old wiring as well as reliance on a 4g EE wifi router mean the network is often flaky but I have lived with it for years - surely the NDX2 would be at least as stable as it’s predecessor? Well no.

I was not told by the dealer that the NDX2 relies on the App for everything. At times of poor internet (clouds, high winds etc) I relied on my Melco drive or plugging my phone into the USB port for direct connection.

The NDX 2 does not support USB in from iPhones - Apples’ fault according to the charming man at Naim who has just dashed all my hopes on a support call.

The NDX 2 does not display the uPnP Melco server on its screen, nor yet does it allow one to scroll through tracks and play using the remote - unlike the NDX1

The NDX 2 relies on Appleplay and Chromecast and the app. I regularly set these up only for music to take ages to start and drop out 3 or 4 times during a symphony. Do Chromecast and Appleplay compete with each other? Can you turn one off anywhere - I know you cant can’t get Chromecast or for that matter Spotify off the NDX 2 home screen?

The NDX 2 does not display track listings for HD BBC Radio stations, I may be seeing the NDX 1 through rose tinted lenses but it, didn’t it?

And to cap it all I find no improvement in sound quality, if anything a less balanced sound overemphasising the bass and treble.

I am sorry for this rant and, if what one reads about social media is true, then I will be trolled for years by people who would have done more research before purchase - but it honestly never occurred to me that Naim’s idea of technical advance is to rely on an App that they themselves admit is far from perfect, at the expense of the simple practical solutions of previous models.

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Oh dear, I can’t answer your specific questions as I don’t own an NDX2 but it does sound like you are very unhappy with your purchase.

Do you have an option to return it to the dealer?

It strikes me that an NDS would suit you better. Same functionality as your old unit and a significant uplift in sound quality over the original NDX and better than the NDX2.

I use an NDS 282/SuperCapDR/300DR into Kudos S20’s and it’s a wonderful sounding system.

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Sorry to read of your understandable disappointment. What is your preferred outcome? Let your dealer know, and go from there.

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Could you describe how your local network is configured.

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Not an NDX2 user either, nor upnp - I have an ND5XS2 - but I don’t think your experience reflects the intended functionality of the NDX2. I think a walkthrough from an experienced NDX2 user is needed - I’m sure one will be along shortly…

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Many thanks for your interest and, again apologies for my very negative sounding first post.

In answer to your question about network: 4G Aerial can only be 5 metres maximum from WiFi router so that is in outhouse at one end of property. From there either WiFi or through 3 off TP Link 2000Mbps Powerline units to HiFi set up at diametrically opposite end of property!

I had ethernet from Powerline to Melco onto NDX2. Naim customer service guy told me this was wrong and told me to plug NDX2 straight into powerline which I have done. The NDX2 has a manually set IP address, as does the Melco to avoid DHCP fails when power fails. It blips nearly every day.

Maybe I should just move to a new build apartment in a city… But I like the trees.

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Your cottage sounds idyllic and I wouldn’t trade this for a city new build.

In your shoes and if 4G is the only means of Internet how about replacing the current 4G router with a Teltonika RUT950 and place this in a Quspot housing this reduces the cable length to a few inches as the RUT is in the antenna.

Power to the RUT is via 24v passive PoE adaptor on LAN port 1.

From the PoE adaptor use TP Link Deco MESH units to feed the cottage and bin those powerline devices.

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Well if you get your 4G router working, you should find your NDX2 performs massively more reliable than a NDX or NDS… insuring you have base level bandwidth…
But it does sound you are not happy… is the sound different from the demo you had? If so I’d take that up with your dealer…
The NDX2 is quite a bit more performant in the audio out compared to NDX, but that is of no benefit if you don’t enjoy its performance.

As far as 4G router placement… yes best put upstairs so can be near antenna… and then run Ethernet from there. There are a few cottages close to me who are too far away for FTTP and definitely FTTC and ADSL hovers around 1mbps if lucky… but upstairs external signal coverage with dedicated high gain external antenna works well on 4G if facing towards nearest mast, which can be a few miles away if you have approx line of sight. In my experience rural 4G are nowhere near as congested as their urban counterparts, and rural 4G performance can be really good with a proper antenna mounting.

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I’d suggest your first port of call should be the dealer that took all your cash in the first place. They should know how to setup the products and get the best from them.
There’s no reason you can’t use an ND product without an Internet connection, it will be somewhat limited of course but perfectly possible and probably preferable at times in your scenario.
You can use the included remote control and built in display for most things even though using the mobile app is easier in many respects.
It may also be worth seeking out a local IT company to review and advise best approach to get the most from your local network.
I see you mention powerline adapters for example, these have a place and can help in certain scenarios but generally where networked audio equipment is concerned they’re best avoided.
You’ll almost certainly get the best out of the equipment you have locally in particular the Melco music server, focussing on getting all the local kit well connected and setup properly seems a sensible starting point.
Sorry to hear you’ve had issues, hope it gets sorted.

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I both appreciate your comments and am in awe of your knowledge of a new language! I will appraise myself of the technologies. Further investment may be needed.

And a general comment to you all: I have clearly been looking back at the differences and irritations rather than looking at the failings of my home network. I must improve my network to get the best from the NDX 2. It is clearly a significant upgrade, especially with the XPS DR.

I had a bad morning. But you are right; it is idyllic.

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Probably true. But in the meantime don’t underestimate how useful a (cheap) 8-port ethernet switch and a (very) long length of cat5 patch cable can be in diagnosing faults by eliminating almost everything else…

Just don’t trip over it… :wink:

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Good advice! Ime the NDX2 easily outclasses the NDX.

G

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Like the NDX, the NDX2 does not require any internet connection to work properly. Just set up a decent LAN (wired or wireless) and your NDX2 will convert digital data from LAN connected UPnP servers even if your cottage is located the middle of a rainforest. If you do not have a reliable internet connection, the NDX2 is of no advantegae against the NDX, as you have found out. Why should it be?

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First of all welcome to the forum!

I do hope you get it sorted out. My NDX 2 gives me hours on end of joy. When I added the XPS DR it was quite an uplift and found it to be an improvement over my NDX. I am a city dweller with good internet connectivity so I have not had to deal with your issue and can not offer any help. Good luck and happy holidays!

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As long as you are not using internet radio or internet streaming services, you can switch off your internet connection and your NDX2 will still work fine. The OP’s problems do not have anything to do with internet connectivity, to the best of my understabding.

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It reminds me my past thread. Apparently I am not alone to ignore that’s possible to stream without internet.
Welcome to the club @seakayaker :laughing:

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TP Link Deco Mesh units ordered as recommended in an attempt to stabilise network.

Many thanks for the advice. I am presuming that glitches with Chromecast and Airplay will be reduced if both Streamer and iPad are on a stable network, regardless of the internet speed.

Thanks to all for considered advice thus far.

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…reading through the responses there was talk of routers, antenna and other connectivity discussion. You are correct if only using a devise like a NAS then everything will work just fine. I thought the problem was connectivity with old technology and the music not playing properly.

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Again, is it possible that you are not aware of the difference between streaming from internet sources and streaming from LAN sources?

If you use Chromecast or Airplay and your internet connection is not reliable, you will be in trouble no matter which streamer you are using.

On the other hand, if you stream from LAN sources and your LAN is reliable, you will be fine no matter whether your streamer is a NDX or an NDX2.

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For a couple of years in our 300 year old, stone walled house (before we got fibre) I used a 4G Teltonika RUT(something number) model and ran ethernet to the hifi system and a wifi access point attached too. It worked perfectly and enabled me to select my music and play from my NAS drive as well as streaming from Internet radio and Tidal.
I’m pleased with my NDX2.
So pleased, I just bought another for a 2nd property!