Thanks - yes, this is a stopgap option.
But then if I’m waiting to see whether a revised 272 arrives, why not step up and get a Zen Mini that has:
Then it’s not just a stopgap, but can be used on a longer term basis?
This is very easy - the UltraRendu can run the SonoreUPnP bridge, and will feed the NDS through the existing Ethernet input as a UPnP stream.
Plus if you connecting the upstream components (Roon Core & NAS) via optical through fibre optical this would be superior to CAT cabling.
For the purpose of Tidal and Qobuz this would be a better route to a NDX2 IMHO.
I have been running the SonoreUPnP bridge with NDS/555DR for over 18 months without problem & no requirement for the expensive upgrade to a ND555 to obtain Roon integration.
And for me a NDS/555DR is still better than a NDX2, as still a better DAC stage & remember still the same DAC technology as the ND555.
Now if you are using a different off-board DAC, that’s a different reason - but then you are needing to be investing serious $ into a DAC, and making what’s in the Naim network player redundant, and then there probably better ways of feeding a DAC than S/PDIF.
Simon
Hi Simon
Can you say exactly what the above sentence means in terms of what one would do to set this up?
Also, can a variant of this work without Roon?
And would this apply to the 272 too?
thanks
Jim
You just add the SonoreUPnP as a package, under Software Manager in Apps
The SonicOrbiter OS has a number of packages which can work as the music server - what are you trying to achieve?
The SonoreUPnP bridge provides a Roon Endpoint to a UPnP enable network player.
So it will work with a 272, as this has a Ethernet input from a UPnP server.
However, remember you are bridging between a protocol that is pushed to the endpoint (Roon RAAT) and one being pulled/requested from the served (UPnP) - so when playback is initiated in Roon to the bridge endpoint, the Naim network player will auto select the Ethernet input, and switch to it. Given the 272 has other input capabilities as part of being a Streaming Pre-Amp, the switching could be from another source and at the volume setting for that input, and will over-ride any previously selected input. Same could be case if you have Naim system automation between components. I don’t have Naim amplification.
So is the Zen Music player controlled by iPeng?
Used that with a Squeezebox3 and LMS server 10 years ago.
Upgraded to a Naim ND5XS to get the Naim App (the Green one) which was superior at that time.
Used the new ‘black’ Naim App with the ND5XS and its upgrade to a NDS.
However all these UIs are left standing compared to Roon, where EVERYTHING is better.
Would recommended staying away from S/PDIF output or Digital inputs on the Naim network players.
In addition to the SonoreUPnP bridge, I also have a XMOS U8 USB->S/PDIF convertor as output for the UltraRendu, however this playback route offers poorer SQ compared to the UPnP route.
Simon, yes the Zen is controlled either by iPeng - which has improved a lot since you would have used it. Or also Orange Squeeze app on Android. (I’ve not used it so can’t comment on how good it is) Or you can enable Roon mode and use it as core or end-point (or as both) and use Roon to control it. Up to you really.
Thanks Simon.
Several very informative and helpful posts there.
I am trying to achieve better SQ.
My ideal is that Naim will launch a 472 - with the new streaming platform; with no internal psu; with twin Burndy inputs for digital and analog circuits; with an optional headphone amp; with no phono stage, screen or volume knob; with the same excellent volume control as the 272.
That would make a serious dent in the market, and consolidate Naim’s long-standing reputation for innovation - and play to the demand for getting more from fewer boxes based on reducing electricity consumption and materials usage, as well as space constraints in modern homes.
Anyway, I’m looking forward to the revised 272 - if that does emerge, although it may not fit my exact brief.
But at some point - say in June - if it doesn’t emerge I may just go down another route.
One other way forward is to max out my 272/555DR even further.
One way to do that is to get a upnp stream to the 272, which I’ve been often told gives a better SQ because it takes processing work away from the 272 streamer (inc. transcoding to WAV?).
So I guess I could achieve that and also get optical isolation by buying a Sonore opticalRendu?
Another way to get that and extra other benefits would be to get an Innuous Zen or Zenith server and stream Qobuz/Tidal from it?
Qobuz should also add SQ over Tidal, which is what I currently use.
One other option would be to get an EtherRegen switch?
So I’m trying to find out which of these routes might be best to go down, or whether I’m missing some other way forward.
I don’t really want the complexity and expense of Roon unless it’s clear that I can get a SQ boost with Roon that cannot be obtained in any other way.
A reference streaming preamp? But why would they, when they have a reference level streamer/network player in the ND555, which can take 2 reference power supplies & a reference Pre-Amp with its own dedicated Power supply. That’s 4 things you have to buy, plus a shelf system to keep it all on!
Then the power amps at that level are all 2 box devices, unless you go for the Statement Pre and Power.
Yup, that’s the approach and it’s seems strange than all owners of the ND555 and NDX2 who use Roon seem to have forgotten this!
You could, but then you are committing yourself to fibre optic cables between Roon Core/NAS and the OpticalRendu.
Why do you say that - I need to see where Qobuz has 24-bit and Tidal doesn’t have Tidal Masters and I haven’t got the HiRes locally.
But then I do have MQA with Roon.
Yes, I think this may be the best route at this time. It will improve your current 272, for all sources local playback and internet streamed.
You can still use it if you go for the SonoreUPnP bridge on the small dedicated unit from SGC.
Or if Naim upgrades the Streaming PreAmp to the current streamer platform and you will then have a native Roon Endpoint over wired Ethernet connection and can still feed from the dedicated B ports.
You can then also try Fibre Optic between Roon Core/NAS as there is a SFP cage on the A ports side of the EtherRegen.
I have nds/ 555dr/ Melco n1h2 and don’t see differences between aiff , flac, wav.
When I had the unitserve, aiff were very very slightly better sounding.
Because it would not compete with the full level 5 rig.
It’s a 3-box cop out for poor people who want a taste of the high-fi life!
Hi Simon
Do the ND5XS2 and the NDX2 have a similar streaming board?
What would be the differences between using an ND5XS2 or a bare NDX2 as a digital transport into an exterior DAC?
Jim
They have the same NP800 boards/modules I beleive. Obviously the power supplies differ, and the ND555 has a separate shielding case around the NP800.
Between ND5XS2 and NDX2 we have remote control features, a meta data/GUI screen (these two were key for me) and a more robust/larger power supply with the NDX2.
Do the demo, it’s easy enough for a dealer to set up. To my ears they sound the same, and I would be surprised if there was much, if any difference with an ND555 either. Of course, it harder to put your expectations aside when spending that much money.
Further to comments made by SiS I read that the NDX2 has a PCM 1792A DAC chip whereas the ND5XS2 has a PCM1791A. Might lead to a slight difference in sq. Happy to be told I’m wrong on this. Not a problem if the DAC is being bypassed.
Yes, NDX2 and ND5XS2 use different DAC chips. If the devices are used as transports, these are bypassed. In this case, the eventual differences in the quality of the SPDIF output of NDX2 and ND5XS2 can be attributed to the different power supplies and/or isolation since both devices use the same NP800 streaming board.
To the best of my knowledge, ND5XS2, NDX2, ND555 and the devices of the Uniti range all use the same NP800 streaming board made by Stream Unlimited. However, ND5XS2, NDX2, ND555 and the Unitis have very different power supplies and isolation and power supplies and isolation have a significant impact on the performance of a board. Stream Unlimited supplies by the way also dCS and many others manufacturers of Hi-Fi solutions. To the best of my knowledge, the NP800 has been developed in closed collaboration with Naim and is only used in Naim products. If you check the web pages of Stream Unlimited, you’ll find a lot of technical information on their hardware and software solutions.
You will read all about Naim’s developments with the NP800 cards in their ND555 white paper… essentially that is where along with digital board where much that is new with the new streaming architectures resides… and seems to make up along with Naim’s digital board a significant proportion of the digital circuitry.
When in transport digital out mode the digital and SHARC processor board, np800 and host controller boards are used, and it’s only most of the DAC and all of analogue filter board that is disabled.
Naim do have a fascinating PowerPoint presentation on the development of their NP800and digital boards, but is only visible I believe if you visit the factory.
Can I understand this, so you are considering buying a new NDX2 to use just as a transport to an external DAC over S/PDIF, which will also be a new purchase? Over buying a complete player.
For the amount of spend you are looking at here, you could look at a solution from dCS, Lumin, Auralic, Merging Technologies, Chord etc. instead of not using half of something new.
No, I’m not considering that.
See posts 26 and 27 above, where I say:
“I don’t want to buy a streamer/DAC for £5k and add a £7k psu to it, then not use half of it and buy a completely different DAC and expensive cable and leave the DAC unused that I just bought brand new.”
I was only asking because I wanted to know where any sonic differences between those 2 machines was coming from as they have the same streaming board.
