The difference between entry level turntables and midrange ones is massive. Source first really pays dividends with analogue, and having heard many times what a good turntable with reasonable arm and cartridge can do into a budget amp and speakers, i’d be inclined to agree with Richard. With digital it’s a different story to a degree.
6 Likes
I’d definitely agree with this.
I recently listened to a Rega P8 with Apheta going through a Rega Fono > IO > Monitor Audio Bronze stand mounts.
Totally front end heavy but it sounded superb. It really changed my perception of what was possible from budget hifi, given the speakers only cost £230.
It was unintended as the dealer only set up the P8 as the Project Debut Carbon (we were supposed to be auditioning) was faulty.
The P8 isn’t much of a looker but it’s really quite lovely to listen to.
4 Likes
In my experience, Exact and Elys are safe choices for Rega turntables, for the complexity-phobic. There are certainly better cartridges available for the more-adventurous; but I found both of these were good enough to make my old Planar3 a very compelling improvement versus my past (somewhat upper-mainstream) experiences with vinyl.
Nick
1 Like
I’d never really came on with Rega cartridges apart from Exact.
that said Elys bundled is quite fair priced but the new VM from AT seem more attractive imo
I think the Rega P3 is good enough for someone starting their first system. I bought my LP 12 and Ittok in 1988 with a £100 AR speakers. Now I have some great Tannoy speakers I’m not convinced by the idea that the source should get the bulk of the budget as the speakers are still the weakest part of the system. Modern turn tables are very good. But appreciate everyone has a different experience.
One of the best demonstrations of source first i ever heard was at Grahams Hifi, London, in around 1980. I took my father and a friend of his as neither of them believed a turntable had any significant bearing on the sound other than going round at the right speed. They were both advocates of the cartridge and speakers make all the difference, and most decent amps and turntables were much the same.
The salesman, now a good friend of mine 40 years later, stood by 3 turntables each fitted with exactly the same cartridge, an A&R P77. Between each playing of a record the same stylus removed and swapped between each turntable.
The 1st record played was from Kate Bush album Never for Ever, the track The Infant Kiss, placed on a Dual CS505. The rest of the system was a Nytech CA252 amp and Acoustic Research AR18s speakers, about £150 and £75 respectively. The track sounded ok, bit harsh, not that interesting. My father and his friend both said they thought it sounded bad and they hated Kate Bush. Second up the record was transferred to a Rega Planar 3, again an A&R P77 catridge and same stylus transferred over. Same system same track, both my father sat up and instantly took notice of the track this time, much more interesting, much more unravelling of complex passages, and even understanding of the actual words. Next up, an LP12 with a Rega R200 arm fitted, same as on the Rega Planar 3, same cartridge and stylus again. From the 1st note, they almost spat out their coffee, a few expletives later and a smile on my face. For the last change they demonstrated the difference an arm could make, so once again, LP12 but with an Ittok, same cartridge, stylus again moved on, same track of the album…
At the end of the Ittok demonstration the pair of them were rather dumbfounded, i’d heard it before so not surprised. Both my father and his friend ordered a new turntable that day. My father the Rega and his friend an LP12/Ittok. Considering neither of them thought turntables made any difference and that they hated Kate Bush, both wanted to know the album title so they could buy it.
Just a little story from my past, and one experience i will never forget. Made quite an impression on me then, and set the tone for my audio path.
24 Likes
That’s a good ad for Graham’s. And Colin is still at the helmet sorting everyone’s LP12 - and others - out!
2 Likes
I don’t see how some of the suggestions above, even with a discount, will stay within budget. My advise would be to at least make sure the system is balanced, don’t spend 90% of the budget on amp and source. Up to you or your friend whether you spend a bit more on source or on speakers, but stay within reason, don’t neglect any component.
So I probably wouldn’t go for an XS3 (unless he gets a really sweet deal) as it would eat up too much of the budget. I would recommend the P6 with 2M bronze or Nagaoka MP-150, something like the Exposure 2510 amp. Speakers are so personal and room dependent that it’s hard to recommend anything specific.
Cables I would just get from Blue Jeans or similar. Excellent quality at reasonable cost.
Addition: A Technics SL1200/10 GR as mentioned below would also be a great deck for this setup.
1 Like
Agreed. P3/Elys/Fono into a Nait 5si would be very pleasing with some Elacs or KEFs, etc.
Used market increases the possibilities, upward, of course.
Nick
Looking at figures, saying £2,000 for turntable , leaving £3 ,000 for speakers, amp ,phono stage cables and possibly stands .
I would go Clearaudio Concept , Graham Slee ,Nait and possibly Acoustic Energy for stand mounts or Totem Arro for floor standers. Keep it simple and perhaps Chord for speaker cable, NAC5 is possibly a bit hair shirt for a newbie
1 Like
Technics sl1200/10 gr £1400 new
Audio technica 95 cart in headshell about £70
Naim nait xs2 on offer for £1300 at Sevenoaks new
£2k for speakers of choice
Rest on phono/cables and used target stands
Bullet proof system that will last a very long time imo
Regards, David
5 Likes
It’s always interesting to read what people would do with a blank sheet of paper and think I started with a balanced system, which then became unbalanced over the years as each component was upgraded.
I believe I’ve now got a reasonably balanced system again but a recent experience has really got me back into ‘source first’ ethos. Perhaps not 90% on source/amp but a large chunk on the source (~60%).
I guess it depends on the OP’s friend, so there’s definitely no right/wrong but if they’re potentially going to upgrade then there’ll be more longevity in a higher quality source and less impact on the budget when upgrading the amp or speakers.
The difficulty with all this is having a dealer who will be willing/able to audition different systems of varying levels of balance.
I’m going through a similar process with a friend but with a £1000 budget. I was thinking of a Rega P2 + upgrade pack, IO and the remainder on speakers.
£5k is a very nice starting budget though so should be very rewarding whatever system is chosen.
2 Likes
Thanks, and a scenario of uprated front end and lower (relative) quality speakers may emerge, as there’s more to be gained at the front end as @GaryYeowell points out too.
There appear to be what one might call ‘bargain’ budget speakers out there, it’s just a case of listening to what works.
2 Likes
That little Rega package with the Io looks a real winner.
The Io looks a lovely bit of kit
2 Likes
It is but with my friend, who’s a total newbie to things hi-fi and has a vision of what he wants, it’s a case of baby steps in explaining all the salient considerations e.g.
- simplicity of use and size of the kit
- where to locate it (esp the TT) and how to get the speakers to ‘work’ e.g. not plonk in corners, this also influenced by where existing power sockets are
- where speaker cabling can run without material issues and also be largely hidden. I have some spare NACA5 but it’s a pig to bend (even with a hairdryer).
1 Like
Maybe, a built in phono stage, would simplify matters?
1 Like
Perhaps, hence my original post about the Nait XS3, which has one (MM only as I read).
One could look for a higher output MC but I think the simplicity of a good MM one (as detailed by Richard) is the direction to go - or Plan A!
Yeah, definitely sounds like he needs a helping hand but fortunately has a more experienced friend on hand. I guess, covid-19 aside, you have a good idea of his room so can help with the planning bit (placement and speaker size etc.). Invaluable stuff for a newbie.
Hopefully you’ll have a few good dealers locally to make things easier too.
Regarding the cables I’ve never owned NACA5 due to the horror stories (stiffness) so opted for Witch Hat N2 bought very reasonably 2nd hand.
Anyway, best of luck with it. It’s definitely fun, possibly more fun than buying for yourself. In my experience, we auditioned a system just before the last lockdown and think she’s started to re-evaluate her budget! Personally it was really gratifying to see a newbie to hifi have that epiphany with various levels of components. I think she came into it not knowing if there’d be much difference between price points but was really surprised.
3 Likes
Definitely. I was really impressed with so much music coming from something at that price. Looks great too.
2 Likes
I have a SN3 and use its built in phono stage - indeed it was one of the deciding factors when I recently simplified my setup. I suspect the stage in the XS3 would be just as good. If I was advising a friend with £5,000 to spend on a vinyl system I’d certainly suggest a Planar 6 or 8, a Nait XS3 and suitable small speakers. No phono stage and unnecessary wires, two mains leads and two speaker wires - perfect. If the 8 can be squeezed into the budget, that would be ideal and will pay dividends in terms of musical satisfaction.
Speakers are of course personal. The Kef Meta is popular but does need some space. Can your friend get them away from the wall or do they need them to be close, which will help to decide.
3 Likes