He may change his mind and revert back to Naim 
Joking aside you have a lovely setup @Andyblain
2 Likes
good point !! 
Indeed, more than lovely!!
1 Like
Oh yes! Thanks for the reminder.
1 Like
Just another perspective. The sia vitus amps are class a. I found the integrated a bit smooth and polite. The cheaper integrated (RI 101) was much more punchy. I now have a 282 hc 250 and do not find it harsh at all with a well treated room.
I don’t dispute your experience though I wonder what might be the culprit that has contributed to the unconvincing performance of the 282/250DR in your system apart from set up and listening preferences. I note that there are several owners who use the same amps on Kudos Titan 606 on this forum, and there’s quite a sizeable crowd here.
- DJM (NAC 282 / SCDR / NAP 300DR)
- DiggyGun (NAC 282 / NAP 250 x 2)
- Stu299 (NAC 252 / SC / NAP 300)
- Toon (NAC 252 / SCDR / NAP 300DR)
- AlanJ (NAC 252 / SCDR / NAP 250DR)
- YorkshirePud (NAC 552DR / NAP 500DR)
- Steve57 (NAC 552DR /NAP 250DR)
- PCD (NAC 552DR /NAP 300DR)
- Dave N/A
- Bluenose N/A
The 282/250DR is considered to be the most forward and vibrant sounding amp among other Classic separates in the line up. Perhaps that may have contributed to the high listening fatigue and shrill treble, further exacerbated by the relatively forward sounding Kudos Titan. Well, relatively speaking when compared to Spendor or Harbeth etc. However, that still doesn’t explain some owners who use the same 282/250DR on the Titan 606.
Enjoy the D’agostino.
2 Likes
Following a house move I learnt the very painful lesson that room acoustics play a huge part in the performance of audio equipment, suspect that’s why there is not universal agreement on what sounds best!
1 Like
Rooms very somewhat too though. Underlay+carpet on wood flooring and plenty of soft furnishings will better tolorate a bright sounding system.
I think the OP has found what some of already know: there is more than one way to skin a cat.
The market is full of different and, quite frankly, very well designed and engineered gear with vastly different engineering focuses. You pick your poison. While I love my Naim system, it isn’t the only thing I have and it’s certainly not a hill I’m prepared to die on.
The 282+250/300 can be egged on just over the top and for sure, needs some careful pairing with speakers and room. But rather than unpacking that, the Naim sound might not be everyone’s cup of tea. And yes, there is a Naim sound. Of course Naim claim their sound is transparency and any house sound would imply colouration. Well I’ve got news for anyone who believes that: nearly all hifi manufacturers say the same thing.
We need to get past notions of “correctness”. It’s a fallacy. Gosh if it was true, THD would be the only value we’d ever need - as it stands it is fairly useless. No one knows what the engineer was hearing in the studio. As you go up the ladder of expensive gear, things get better in terms of resolved information, presentation, drive and presence. For all we know “correct” from the engineer’s perspective s substantially worse than what we are able to recreate in the home on our systems. Ergo, if it sounds better to you then it is better.
I do get a sense that many people are massively frustrated by the simple fact that this hobby entirely governed by subjective preference. It might be an aspect of a slightly OCD mindset that really cannot cope with the idea of there not being a right answer and there never will be a right answer beyond an audience of one.
The silliest thing would be for the OP to continue using something they are not happy with because they thought they should be happy with it.
31 Likes
These days even Harbeth is very forward sounding. I have actually moved away from Harbeth for this very reason. A lot of modern speakers sound too bright to me too. Kudos 606 are also tiring for me. Same story for their smaller siblings the Super20. Bowers Wilkins, same story. Audiovector R3 are some seriously well balanced and entertaining speakers. They have a punchy sound and a pretty smooth treble indeed.
The champion in my book of all the 8 speakers I’ve demoed in the past few months were the Dynaudio Heritage Special.
So to get back on track, from my point of view it’s the speakers that are the problem here.
3 Likes
In term of harshness/brightness, the problem with my system was definitely the 282/250 combination. There is absolutely no doubt about that, having tried numerous combinations of amps/speakers.
My source didn’t help either - there are far better combinations out there than the ND555/555PS. You are right about the Kudos Super 20s. I tried these originally and found them totally different to the Titans.
1 Like
I’ve now had valve based sources for coming up to 5 years now so I don’t even remember what a solid state source sounds like. ( not that they all sound the same).
But I’ve heard so many good things about the ND555/PS. I will say this, setup is fundamental to Naim. Its not a tweak, it’s necessity.
Personally having tried various other high end brands I’ve become jaded. I no longer have the energy to try out new combinations in my otherwise perfected (to me) & balanced system. Naim amplification cannot be bettered imho. Other areas can be tweaked to tip the balance of tone etc. but without the excitement of Naim amplification I wouldn’t bother listening to my system. Bold statements, I know but I must stress, I’ve been through some very costly and highly acclaimed alternatives to reach this conclusion.
3 Likes
Everything you say makes absolute sense. There are no rights and wrongs here; The bottom line is whether the owner I.e. you, is happy with your listening experience. I wasn’t, and knew that I had to change. I would have loved to have been; it would have saved much hassle and cost! I hope that everyone on this forum is happy with what they’ve got; when you know it’s right, you know…
3 Likes
I agree. However, I would like to make a point. A suspect a lot of people mix up bright and forward. These two terms do not mean the same thing. I have owned the Harbeth SHL5s for 12 years now (SHL5 for 7 years, SHL5+ about 5 years). I always felt that they sound warm but not bright or forward. Nevertheless, that perception changed when I tried the Marten Duke 2. The Marten made the Harbeth sound forward and slightly rough. Not bright but forward. This forwardness to me contributes to an unrefined sound.
After living with the Marten for about 2 years now, I find it difficult to go back to the Harbeth. I still have the Harbeth in another system but it is rarely used. As a matter of fact the system was untouched for several months now.
Good to know that the Dynaudio Heritage Special is something special. I have read good things about them.
1 Like
I stand corrected. Yes I meant to say bright not forward. Forward sound can be engaging and exciting. Whereas what I meant was the sound is a smidge sharp for my liking. Tested on multiple amps. Naim and others.
It’s odd, my Harbeth 40.2 driven by the Klimax DSM/3 and the Klimax Solos sound opposite to what you are saying.
If Harbeth sounds bright to you, I believe a lot of speakers out there will sound excessively brighter / unlistenable. My Harbeth SHL5 was tested on 7 amps in an attempt to make them sound brighter. They sound too warm for my taste with most of the amps. I guess everyone doesn’t hear the same.
2 Likes
Not older Harbeths. 30.2 AE was probably my favourite from Harbeth.
But the new SHL5XD is harsh and even the 30.2XD is a smidge harsh.
2 Likes
Surely its the entire system chain and room that determines harshness? My system isn’t harsh and I have SHL5+XD.
1 Like
Not in my case. As soon as the amps were replaced, the whole sound signature of the system changed. It was taken to another level when I replaced the NAIM streamer with a dCS
front end.
I have never tried/owned Harbeth speakers, but I understand they are a reasonable match with NAIM?
2 Likes