And have you all oriented the glass for best ring when tapped?
@Darkebear are you able to shed any light on my madness?
I will try moving the glass forward again in a few days but things definitely sound better to me.
Ever listen to music?
To much I am told, hence how I can notice a difference…
Just keep room for that XPS DR
Each of the boxes has different weight distribution, especially the power supplies and amps which are really lop-sided, there is no common rule for all boxes.
I expect they enjoyed the journey
I’ve been playing with plug order on my linear strip again recently, retrying power amp first but I still find there is a cost to musical coherence for a small gain in dynamics so I then started thinking about signal and box earth and plugged in the boxes in order of distance from the signal earth box, an ND555, so next comes the 552ps at one step removed followed by the supercap for the superline and 500ps at two steps removed. I find the result of this quite pleasing.
When @Peder was running his cable and switch thread there was a theory about noise shaping posited to explain that any effect could be heard and that it was inconsistent between systems, I wonder if there’s not something similar going on here too as I know others have found plug orders they prefer which are very different to mine.
There are also two turntable power supplies, both with small frame stepdown transformers, I’ve kept these together but tried different positions on the block, the first two sockets seem to give the best results but the really mad thing is that swapping the order of these two while listening to the ND555 and with neither table turning, though the transformer of at least one energised as it’s before the power switch, still has an effect on the sound.
I’m pleased to have got rid of my mains block. Now I have a simple hydra it’s just a case of plugging in any of the plugs into any of the sockets. I won’t say it’s better but it’s certainly simpler. Sometimes we over complicate things. I’m all for tweaking the system to get the best out of it but if anyone really believes that moving the glass back 1mm… And if anyone then does the same in response… 1mm? Really? I wonder if moving the saucepan back 1mm on the gas makes the pasta taste better? No wonder people on other forums think Naimees are potty.
Quite so, they do!
1mm + shift on 5 shelves weighing around 12-15kg shifting the weight through a floor spike that has a 2mm radius is changing something.
Where the ball bearings are now in a different position on the glass, this could effect the “glass ring” also and alter mechanical vibration, in essence the whole point of how the Fraim has been designed. I am not saying the thing sounds “broken” with the glass further forward.
If I am mad then the guys at Naim who designed it must be bonkers!
Holding your balls while listening to music probably makes more of a difference. Now I’ve lost hearing in one ear and relying on aids I’m just pleased to be able to hear anything at all!
I’ll let you try that one and report back…
What does Naim say about it ?
They must had found the best position themselves when designing it.
I found a few years ago it made a significant difference and that I needed it tuned-up right.
What do I mean by ‘significant’?
Well with an Active system if things are a bit ‘off’ - you hear it very clearly as usually a brightness of a resonance somewhere or a dullness bloom in bass (which spoils timing a lot). One can think it is ‘the system’ or ‘you’ but generally when others hear it the same as you then you it is the system - and I very much found the Fraim a part of the system.
Long story short: I experimented and found that after DR upgrade with both my then 552 and CD555 that they ‘shouted’ at me more than I liked when placed in what was before the position on glass that worked best for them - about 6mm back from front-edge.
In experiment I found that the four feet sitting on the glass do flex the glass at the back where the glass is not more directly under the bearing near the feet - if the four feet are not perfectly level then one foot will tend to be slightly ‘off’ the glass and it buzzes at a resonance and injects that into the box.
Naim do provide via Dealers very tiny metal washers to level-out this imperfection (nothing is perfect) - it only matters a lot on the ‘hard-foot’ boxes with internal sub-chassis, as the squishy feet take that out with the other boxes - but they create a resonance with the internal sub-chassis suspension so are not used with those boxes. In any case the washers just make it ‘better’ but never perfect in this case - but position near front of glass solves it - and a very slight (fraction on mm) ‘twist’ then gets it level, which you can judge by the end-result musically when it all snaps into focus.
It didn’t before DR, but DR upgrade put more HF energy more clearly resolved into my system response - and it seemed to excite the Fraim - anyway, moving the boxes to near-front fixed it, as it also did with two other Forum friends Reference systems who were having the same issue.
I found - and still find - it all very sensitive, but you know when you have it right as the system opens-out and sings with more perceived dynamic range and clarity and importantly - without bands of resonance putting sibilance into voice or dullness into some bass notes.
I have set all my boxes bear the front of glass and then - by ear - individually micro-tunes them and listened to it each time until it was right; it then stays ‘right’ for years if you don’t touch it.
I found that Naim seem to have optimized the bearing positions on the glass to the feet of the large footprint box feet positions to place all resonances just out of band of what the equipment was designed to handle best - Naim always seem to carefully position their boxes to front of Fraim and one may think this is just to look good, but I found it also sounded best.
Try it and if you hear it as better - it is better.
If it is only better for you and you feel it ‘madness’ - enjoy your madness!
If you wish to conform to consensus that it does not matter - then fine as well, its all good!
I purchase my HiFi to deliver the best music it can - I have found lots of ‘impossible’ things matter. Also having a scientific background myself I know these effects are not ‘impossible’ just initially unexpected to be audible - but resonance does strange things, like infinite storage of energy at one frequency needing to be dissipated into a ‘resistance’…which can be the Fraim structure - or your Equipment innards.
Experiment and accept the results - I’ve taken my system a very long way doing that.
I would very much agree with DB. Lots of effects can be playing in here from load distribution back to front but also overall weight load on individual Fraim stacks. Also vibration from the floor structure up into the stacks once the floor’s resonant frequency gets activated by a pair of full range floor standers.
In my case after my recent Fraim rebuild and hugely positive effect of the anti vibrational Townsend Podiums under my Facts, I’ve revisited this also and indeed it is sensitive/ individual.
I now have my 3x PSs lined up with the front of the Fraim. My 500 head 1-2mm back and 555CDP head 3-4 mm back. This gives me the best musical sound from my system and all worth a try ATB Peter
It was suggested moons ago that simply picking the boxes up and setting them back down every now and then might give a sound boost by allowing them to sit on the glass, rather than sticking to it.
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