No Pre-Amp?

Xanthe, AFAIK it’s discontinued and not in the current lineup… :slight_smile:

And 202/200 isn’t available as production of these has been suspended.

282/HCDR/300DR works for me! Question is what next, 252/SCDR or go straight to 552. Straight to 552 couple of years off I think!!

Suspended yes, but it hasn’t been discontinued, so still current.

Or leave it as it is. You have a great system @Inmynaim. It looks perfectly balanced.

Trouble is if you go 552 is the NDX2 going to be enough with XPSDR? Will it be an ND555 with 555PS or an upgrade to the LP12.

And so the upgrades go on!

A 252 Supercap sounds good. Or wait things out for 552 and ND555 555PS!

I’ve heard 252 Supercap DR on a 500DR and that sounded pretty good too!

Source first or 552? These questions always come up on this forum.

Thats the conundrum Dan! I’m a little bit tempted by upgrading the XPS to a 555DR first. Will need to have a listen to the options though

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I have an NDS with 555PS and a CDS3 with XPS2. I trialled the CDS3 with the 555PS for a while and it sounded alot better to be fair. My finances cannot justify swapping out the XPS2 for a 555PS. And after a while I got used to the CDS3 sounding great with the XPS2 after a service.

Quite often it’s what your ears get used to.

Yes a 555PS is a big upgrade.

And with the LP12 changing from Valhalla to Lingo 1 helped. And going Cirkus made a big jump with Kore. Karousel is the latest bearing upgrade and is meant to be the best.

All these upgrades change and usually improve things.

If you have the funds and are wanting more, then I would do the upgrades slowly and gradually.

I guess the trick is to enjoy the music and look at whether you want to continually upgrade or just be happy with a great system as it is.

You can always get a better system. It never stops. I know my system sounds amazing as it is. I’m sure that yours does too.

Yes it does Dan. When I swapped my audiolabs for 202/200 4 years ago, I never dreamed I could have a system this good!

THANKS for this. Excellent.
I’m interested in the implication that you would upgrade the pre-amp itself, after its power supplies, to the maximum (e.g. NAC282+NAPSC+SuperCap before upgrading the power amp (200->250).
This is actually pertinent to my intended question, because I’m still wondering - if the NDX 2 has a output volume control, (and maybe it doesn’t!) why would I need the pre-amp at all?
Is it because the pre-amp adds something?
Or because the power-amp doesn’t work properly without the intended pre-amp?

2 things:

  1. The volume control in the NDX2 is predominantly there for some Apple or Google certification. It is a 32-bit control in the digital domain, i.e. certainly not what would be considered state of the art. If you reduce the volume, the least significant bits are lost, and as it’s only 32-bit, this comes rather early. Some people still say they hear no difference and YMMV, but it’s certainly not how Naim would have implemented a first-class digital volume control.

  2. With Naim pre/power amps, it is best to consider it a complete amplifier in 2-4 boxes. The power amp is designed with the assumption that the pre-amp is there and conditions the signal path regarding bandwidth and impedance so that it fits the power amp. It is possible to design power amps in a way that they don’t care, but Naim’s aren’t; Xanthe wrote about it at length in the other threads where “no pre” was discussed. The Naim power amps still work well with some third-party pres (and possibly pre-less with some sources, but even less likely), but not with all.

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I have heard a cord dac driving a NAP300 it was very disappointing…it lacked drive…not recommended…

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Thank you both! Very useful.

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It was a dave…driving the 300dr…it was very disappointing…it should have been stellar…

Work and work well are two different things…

The amplifier is made up of two parts that make the whole. Trickiest part to do well is the front end or pre-amp. It’s why the preamp takes priority in the hierarchy and also why a source with a basic volume control or simple “pre” doesn’t work as well as a proper dedicated preamp designed to work optimally with the power amp.

How important is the preamp vs. The power amp? A good demo here that I used to do for anybody who wanted convincing was to have two similarly priced pre/power pairings; one a NAC552/552PS with a NAP150x, the other a NAC112x/ Flatcap2x with a NAP500. Extreme examples but perfect to make an unequivocal point. The NAC552 pairing was so much better it was no contest whatsoever.

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I’ve no idea what the C word is!
Assume Chord? Not Cyrus?!
Anyway,… I’m already a guitarist and a saxophonist who owns neither a Martin or a Selmer. I don’t want to end up being also an audiophile without a Naim!

:scream::scream::scream:

If that C word is associated with a proper phono stage, it’s not so silly.
And, take a look at their new XR range. Cyrus are serious about where they are going.

Indeed from my experience that’s SO true…

I could design a good power amp, even a good power amp designed to work with a passive volume control (i.e. no preamp), but I never could get the hang of designing decent preamps!

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