I don’t have not it Simon…
There are also the uk Music First ( passive pre). Do you know the brand?
I use my nap300dr with a World Design Pre 4 and it works very well. I only have the SU as my user friendly source at the moment so it’s hard to say whether the tube pre is better or not.
As a bit of a joke it also ran my nap300dr directly from a Audioquest Cobalt plugged into the side of my laptop, don’t mock it sounds very good, although I’ll never be happy serving up music from a laptop shackled by a short analogue signal cable, but work it does,
If I shell out £21k for a new preamp tomorrow and just after I get it Naim bring out a new version, I’d probably be a bit peeved and I might even start a thread about it here! And if Naim start bringing out new versions on a regular basis, I might well hold off buying hoping to get better value by waiting, at least unless it was easily upgradeable. With such a mature technology as an analogue preamp, I think Naim have been quite canny in improving the NAC by adding DR to the power supply and offering it as an optional upgrade. This also helps with resale value.
Roger
Hi FR,
Yes, they have a great rep. A friend who owned one switched to the Allegri. He thought they were on a par, and so reclaimed some money by selling the MF - I can’t remember which version he had.
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and I’m thankful for that. I don’t need either in my pre. I have a great phonostage and never use headphones.
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I don’t either but I wasn’t taking about individuals (I don’t have vinyl and rarely use my headphones). If they weren’t considered important why have been included in the integrated amps, and why have Naim made a big deal out of “with added love for vinyl”. There’s always going to be features that we won’t use but that doesn’t mean others won’t.
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Integrated amps have design motivations and audiences that differ from those for separates. I don’t see a problem or conflict, with adding headphone/phono support in an integrated and excluding it all from a dedicated pre. That’s a defining distinction, IMO.
I think adding phonostages and/or headphone amps to Naim’s higher dedicated pre-amps would be unfortunate. I’d rather add them as separate boxes of my choosing, since I’m already on the path of separate boxes, as it is with my system.
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Considering the NAC S1’s first sketches were drawn nearly 30 years ago I suppose it is über obsolete if we follow your 5 years turnover logic 
When a product design reaches maturity there is very little that can be improved without tikling the uper product range. From a commercial point of view it wouldn’t make sense for the NAC 552DR to compete with the NAC S1.
But at some point I suppose casing design could change…
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Really…The 52 pre was just a mere winkle in JV’s eye back then and that was a HUGE departure for NAIM at that point in time with big engineering hurdles to climb .
Where can you reference that the NAC-S1 was even a scribble on a hand towel 30 years ago please enlighten me ?
If you were to say 10 years ago I could believe that but 30???
Having listened to 552 dr versus S1, the latter is clearly better, but at quite a cost. I cannot see any room to improve the 552 without the S1 having a make over. As mentioned elsewhere in the thread the analogue development is slow…so i think there is probably little room to significantly improve the S1. So Naim leave untouched imo.
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All of the Naim pre amps have had incremental design changes over the years. I had a very interesting conversation with one of the long time Naim support guys when I was talking about the service to my CD555 and he explained that along the product timeline they keep refining the product, learn better ways to make them perform etc. There were software updates also that improve all items (I believe) The CD555 that I got back was to the same spec as the last ones made which the chap suggested would be a performance lift over its 2011 state. I also asked about Pre Amps as I had a 2016 552 before I traded in for a brand new 2019 model. The same is relevant especially with the higher up models. He said they had changed the way they do something with the wiring to good effect and something else. Naims products do get incrementally updated as Naim strive for the best sound possible. I for one MUCH prefer this approach. Regarding the 552 or similar have phono and headphone sockets, this would most likely compromise the sound the 552 makes so I can’t see Naim doing that. The 552 is unbelievable. If you have not heard one then don’t assume it is a really good pre amp, its not, is something else. It is also staggering how close it comes to the S1 for ⅓ of the price.
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I think if one has a naim preamp then use a naim power amp. Naim has a specific sound. Naim is not really very transparent to the source, and that’s fine. Naimites love Naim for its distinctive sound. If I was going to spend big big money on preamp/power amp I’d probably look at ARC, Levinson, D’agostino, Spectral, CJ, Aestheix. My point is you’re either a Naim’ster or not 
and it’s all only 
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Yes, uncomfortably close.
So when the 552 is serviced and dr, is it a completely 2020 552 pre?
Maybe you are both right, so maybe the 552 can’t be improved. But is the gap between S1 and 552 not dramatic? I remember @Darkebear saying the difference was very big.
My dealer says that Naim pre and amps are more difficult now to sell, because are globally unchanged since 2002.
Maybe Naim should make little modifications, like a refresh, in the spirit of SN3, XS3?
Yes but it depends on the synergy with the rest of the system.
I had my 552 with 300DR but when I bought my Marten Duke 2 speakers the system balance was way off. It turned out the 300DR was a poor match with the Martens. I now have my 552 partnered with a Sugden FBA 800 Class A amp. I’m really surprised how well the Sugden works in my system, and partners so well the 552 and speakers. The Sugden amp has a useful 6db cut selector which I use as the Martens are a very efficient 4ohm speaker. I have more gain now on the 552 and the class A amp sound is exquisite.
My takeaway here is don’t be afraid to explore other options.
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I’m not saying anything. I don’t work for Naim. But Steve Sells does :
—> https://youtu.be/yqDlAV_tr2s
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Absolutely. This is probably part of Naim’s strategy.
I’ve been told the same about the NAP500DR ; successive refinements over the years.
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Yes there is s gap, and i am sure Steve Sells could improve the 552, but not so sure he could realistically keep the gap between 552 and S1, even with an S1 overhaul.
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