NSC 222 + NAP 250 with Harbeth SHL5 Plus XD

Hi-Fi Corner
1

Hello everyone,

My name is Massimo, I live in Italy, and I’ve been interested in hi-fi and music. I’m new to the Naim forum, and this is my first post.

My current system consists of Harbeth Super HL5 Plus XD, a Marantz Model 50 amplifier and a Marantz CD50n, which I use as a CD player and streamer/DAC, mainly with Tidal. The CD50n is connected to my network via Ethernet. My listening room is approximately 5 x 6 metres (30 m²).

I’m considering a significant upgrade to my electronics and I’m very interested in the Naim NSC 222 + NAP 250 combination.

Before making an investment of this size, I’d really like to hear from anyone who uses, or has spent a good amount of time listening to, these Naim electronics with Harbeth SHL5 Plus XD.

I’m not simply looking for more power.

What I’m hoping to achieve by moving to Naim is a genuine step up in sound quality: greater dynamics and authority, better separation and soundstage, while retaining the natural tonality and vocal quality that I particularly enjoy with the Harbeths.

With the SHL5 Plus XD, I’m especially interested in the quality of the bass: control, articulation, speed, and avoiding any sense of overhang or excessive bloom.

For this reason, I’d be particularly interested in hearing about real-world experience from anyone who has used this combination in their own system, preferably over an extended period rather than just a brief demonstration.

If anyone has moved to the NSC 222 + NAP 250 from electronics made by other manufacturers, while keeping the same Harbeths, I’d also be very interested to hear what improvements or perhaps compromises you found.

Many thanks in advance for your thoughts and advice.

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@ryder or Garcon should advide.

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No doubt such Naim NC combo will bring you nice bas control, its a terrific combo if you have budget available.

I trust your Harbeth’s XD don’t have the earlier SHL5 sluggish/boom bas, especially if placed close to rear wall.

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Thanks PerF. Bass control is indeed one of the aspects I’m most interested in.

These are my first Harbeth speakers, so I don’t have any direct experience with the earlier SHL5 models. My previous speakers were B&W, which sounded very good, although in my room and to my ears they tended to have a rather bright presentation.

With the SHL5 Plus XD I’ve paid particular attention to positioning from the start, and I keep them well away from the walls to avoid excessive bass reinforcement and any potential boom.

My concern when choosing new electronics is that bass which is not sufficiently controlled, with too much overhang or boom, could compromise what I consider one of the greatest strengths of these Harbeths: the beautifully balanced and natural midrange and treble.

So I’m not simply looking for more power. What I’m really looking for is amplification that can provide better bass control, articulation and speed, while preserving the natural and balanced presentation that I enjoy so much with the SHL5 Plus XD.

Thanks again for your input.

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Why not try a Nait 50 at 1/8th price first, before opening the big wallet ?

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The Harbeth I used to own is the Super HL5 Plus and not the XD version, and I don’t have experience with the Marantz Model 50 and latest Naim NSC 222 + NAP 250 so it’s not really the same.

However, as shared by many Harbeth owners which happens to be my experience as well, the more power you feed the Harbeth SHL5+ the better the performance. I went from 202/200 to 282/250DR and the bass gained weight and sounds considerably more punchy with better presence and dynamics. They overall sound is more 3 dimensional add well and the flow is better. There was an owner who went even further by upgrading from NAP 250DR to NAP 300DR and reported the 250DR to sound broken. In other words the Harbeth sounds a lot better with 300.

The above may or may not be useful to the @MassimoB as the Naim and Harbeth in discussion are the older models.

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I have had the SHL5+ XD with my Naim+ rig for close to 2 years. Fantastic combination IMHO. Now, I play mostly classical and jazz, so all acoustic stuff, basically. The occasional blues and rock, but really, mostly acoustic. The Harbeths really shine with the Naim. I can’t speak too much about rock, though. But maybe others can. As to your question, I think the bass is fine and well articulated, but it’s hard to be sure whether you will have the same experience, as the bass is so dependent on room acoustics (well, the treble too!). Note that I have my Harbeth stands on Townshend Seismic Isolation Podium and I like that combo quite a bit when it comes to bass.

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Thanks for the suggestion. The Nait 50 is certainly interesting, but for my needs I would prefer to have more power and dynamic headroom, also considering the size of my room and the SHL5 Plus XD.

From reading various discussions on this forum, I also get the impression that the SHL5 Plus XD benefit from an amplifier with good power and current delivery in order to perform at their best. This is another reason why I’m leaning towards the NAP 250 rather than a lower-powered solution.

I’m definitely interested in experiencing the Naim sound, which is one of the reasons I’m considering this change. However, it would be difficult for me to buy a Nait 50 now and then later make the additional investment in the 222 and 250.

I would rather make one significant investment in a system that can represent a genuine long-term upgrade, replacing both my current amplifier and streamer/DAC and hopefully achieving a significant improvement in overall sound quality.

That’s why I’m particularly interested in hearing from people who have experience with the 222/250 and the SHL5 Plus XD.

1 Like
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Thanks Ryder, your experience is definitely useful to me, even though it relates to the earlier SHL5+ and the previous generation of Naim electronics.

I find the improvement you experienced when moving from the 202/200 to the 282/250DR particularly interesting: not only greater bass weight and impact, but also a more three-dimensional presentation and better overall musical flow. That is exactly the kind of improvement I’m looking for.

I also find it interesting that the improvement was so significant even though the increase from 70 to 80 watts may seem fairly modest on paper. Clearly, the NAP 250DR represents a step up from the NAP 200 that goes well beyond the simple increase in rated power, and that seems to come through very clearly in your experience with the Harbeths.

Your reference to the move from the NAP 250DR to the NAP 300DR is interesting as well. I’m not necessarily looking for a huge amount of power, but your experience suggests that these Harbeths may have considerably more to offer when partnered with higher-level electronics.

This makes me even more interested in finding out how my SHL5 Plus XD would perform with the current Naim generation, and in particular with the NSC 222 + NAP 250 combination.

Thanks again for sharing your experience.

1 Like
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Thanks 1koenig1, your experience is particularly interesting to me because you’ve been using the SHL5 Plus XD for almost two years.

I noticed from your profile that your system includes a NAP 250 together with a NAC 62/Hi-Cap, NDX2/XPS-DR and Chord Qutest. So I’m particularly pleased to hear that you consider the combination with the Harbeths fantastic and, above all, that you find the bass well articulated.

I completely agree with you about the importance of room acoustics and speaker positioning, especially when it comes to bass. That’s also why I keep my Harbeths quite a long way from the walls.

May I ask which version of the NAP 250 you are using?

And since you’ve owned the SHL5 Plus XD for almost two years, have you had the opportunity to hear them in your system with any other amplifiers? If so, I’d be very interested to know what differences you noticed compared with the NAP 250, particularly in terms of bass control and articulation and, more generally, the naturalness and three-dimensionality of the sound.

Thanks again for sharing your experience.

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My NAP250 and HiCAP are from 1984, but rebuilt in 2024 (I upgraded to a 250/HiCap from my 110/SNaPs I originally bought in 1982! I should have changed my profile I now have a HUGO TT2 as DAC. I unfortunately can’t help you with other amplifiers. Given how long I have had a NAP250/HiCap you can see I don’t change much when I like things (I kept my Linn Isobarik for 40 years too before it was time to go to Harbeth). I have toyed with the idea of upgrading my NAP250 to something more modern from Naim. We’ll see.

Bass control is fine although my room is challenging as it is 10feet/3m wide and 20feet/6m long so on some albums there is probably a room mode (I bought a mic to do more serious room acoustics measurement but haven’t done it yet).

One question for you: why are you so focused on the bass? Do you find the Harbeth not optimal in that respect for what you are listening to in your setup? I am not much of a HiFi guy, so I don’t know how the Harbeth compare to other respects in that respect. I bought the Harbeth because their rendition of timber and phrasing was the best from the speakers I listened to and that matters the most to me.

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I’m not dissatisfied with the bass of my Harbeths, but I have high expectations for the introduction of the Naim electronics into my system, because this will be my final system and it also represents a significant investment for me. For this reason, the opinions of experienced users are very helpful to me before making a decision.

One concern I have is the specified damping factor of the new NAP 250, which is 36. I’m well aware that this parameter, taken in isolation, cannot tell us how an amplifier will sound, and I certainly don’t intend to judge the NAP 250 on the basis of a single technical specification. However, it is a low value and it has raised some concerns for me about bass control.

So it’s not a question of being dissatisfied with the SHL5 Plus XD, but rather wanting to be sure that the change will preserve the naturalness and balance of the Harbeths while also providing excellent control of the lower frequencies.

Of course, I know that ultimately listening matters more than any technical specification. That’s exactly why it’s very important for me to hear about the experiences of people who actually use these components.

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Fully understand and NC250 based amp must be excellent on your loudspeakers.

Although I wouldn’t put much attention to rated power, it is specs on a paper, sometime misleading.

Reality is something entirely different - A 100W amp can easy be bettered by a 35W Naim amp.

I’ve had countless experience with people’s 200W amps thinking… “must better” a 70w Naim amp.

If the average guy on the street knew, they’d sell like hotcakes.

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Got it. Then I am probably not the best person to speak to your concerns, as I have had Naim electronics for so long (44 years and counting) that I can provide a fair comparison to other amplifiers. Maybe you can start a new thread about whether one should be concerned about bass control of Naim amps given the damping factor. Of course, the best would be to find a Naim dealer near where you live, but I know all too well it’s not always feasible.

Good luck!

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Still the watts matter, I have a 250 + 222 + 300npx driving Sonus Faber Olympica Nova 3, the sound is nice but if sometimes you want to increase the volume at party levels you may end up with a blown tweeter like I did, usually the left one, that channel give up first. I have a similar room, so you need some power if you want to crank up the volume. Maybe the 350 would do a better job, but the price is much higher. I am now very cautious with the volume and for the party mood I have a McIntosh.

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Thanks again for sharing your experience and for taking the time to answer my questions. I really appreciate your help and support.

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I completely agree with you that rated power alone doesn’t tell the whole story, and that real-world performance is what really matters.

Thanks for sharing your experience and for your advice. I really appreciate it.

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Thanks for sharing your experience. In my case, I never listen at party levels, so from that point of view I don’t think the power of the NAP 250 would be an issue for me.

It’s very interesting to hear from someone who actually uses the NSC222 + NPX 300 + NAP 250 combination, especially in a room similar in size to mine.

How do you find the NAP 250 with your Sonus Fabers at low frequencies? Do you find the bass well controlled and articulate?

Thanks again for sharing your experience.

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For me it’s ok the bass control, I have as backup also 2 subs when I listen to electronic music, but I don’t miss them. I used before BW702s3, I like them but they needed the subs, especially at low volume.

Olympica are pretty demanding speaker, maybe with easier speakers you shouldn’t worry about power. After all is about compromise, normally I should get a more powerful amp, but at naim this comes with a cost which I’m not sure I’m willing to pay.

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Thanks, this is very helpful. Your experience with bass control is exactly the kind of information I was looking for, especially considering that the Olympicas are quite demanding speakers.

Thanks again for sharing your experience.