It’s like this around here too, Mike. It isn’t possible to go round my small cul-de-sac on the footpath if you are a wheelchair user.
Parking is no longer a neat and tidy affair, it’s simply stop wherever is easiest and get out.
Few care about anybody else these days.
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Sorry PJL but frankly you clearly are confusing “facts”with your personal feelings. Your use of the 999 system was inappropriate and I would suggest that is the view of the vast majority of other users here. The fact that something is technically criminal does not mean it is an emergency, be it ongoing or not. An officer attending would have to make a subjective judgment as to whether an offence exists, whether it is intentional ( obstruction is a subjective matter and not an absolute one such as no insurance when driving) and whether any action on his or her part is proportionate given the circumstances as they find it. Neither would that officer have to take any formal action, they could offer advice if they felt it warranted.
You were offered advice by an emergency call handler who no doubt was very busy. You have chosen to berate the Police for informing you that such use of an emergency line was inappropriate. Despite this you continue to claim it was appropriate.
I agree you were given incorrect information later on 101 as to whether it was a criminal offence or not.
Littering is a criminal offence but people don’t call 999 if they see someone dropping crisp packets.
No offence intended but I feel you have lost sight of the wood for all of the trees on this issue.
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The tail wagging the dog.
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Well PJL surely you are not referring to the vast majority on this thread? I feel most would certainly bother the emergency services when appropriate, and then choose the correct way to do it. Weak minded? Where in history have I heard such speech before?
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How many times?
Your basis for the assertion that the use of 999 was inappropriate is wrongly based on the presumption it is for emergencies.
With regards to the police it is not. The terms of service for 999 and its own guidance state very clearly that with regard to police referrals it’s about whether a crime has been committed which requires action or is about to be committed. That’s the only distinction a 999 call handler is legally required to make when taking a call.
Once the call has been referred the police decide how they allocate work and over the years they have decided to prioritise things they and they alone define as emergencies. It has significant omissions. Rape and assault for example are not emergencies unless there is a mass disturbance and domestic assault features not at all. They have recently attempted to downgrade people having serious mental health episodes even when other services deem those individuals as a danger to the public. These very strange priorities are in practice further distorted by the police ambulance chasing in circumstances where the ambulance is what’s needed alone.
Whilst 999 is easiest to advertise as the “emergency number” when it comes to the police that’s not actually what it’s for. In reality, what the police deem an emergency is no less subjective than the suggestions being offered here and we come back to the plain old fact that the only way to change those often very weird, wrong or politically motivated priorities is to dial 999 and demand action.
As for the fact that others here agree. So what?
The common theme seems to be people talking about a service they’ve never used; would actively seek to not do so; don’t have experience of the impact obstruction has on full time pedestrians and so on. As a basis for comment it’s hardly compelling.
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Apologies quite unnecessary ChifChaf. Indeed it is I who am sorry that despite various attempts to enlighten you you still remain sadly ignorant of the facts. Allow me to assist your understanding. Please bare with me.
No it was not. 999 should be called if a crime is in progress. It was.
A view that is entirely irrelevant.
Technically? Either it’s illegal or it isn’t! It doesn’t mean it’s an emergency necessarily - that depends on the circumstances of course.
How do you know so much about what a police officer would/should do in specific circumstances? Have you had appropriate training in this? Or is it just a load of assumptions you are making because that is what seems reasonable to you for a police officer to do? By the way, they wouldn’t have to make any subjective judgements. A pile of bricks placed in the centre of a pavement is a criminal offence. There’s nothing subjective about it.
Because it is. The 999 operator was incorrect.
And this is relevant, how exactly?
Absolutely none taken.
I hope this may help you to get a better grasp of the facts. But FACTS ChifChaf, not your own views about how things should be or how you suppose things would or should be handled.
I’ll be happy to provide further clarification if you require it, but you really need to curb your obvious tendency to present your own personal views as being established fact. It does you no favours.
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As I did. So what’s your problem?
It’s a jury of your peers and I’m afraid you have been found guilty of phoning the emergency services inappropriately.
The jury of peers clearly does not believe that bricks on a pathway constitute a “crime in progress”.
.sjb
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Then I am forced to appeal against that verdict on the grounds that it is complete tosh Your Honour!
Anyway I’m off for a nightcap before the old brain-box bashes the pillow.
Do feel free to carry on without me!
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Appeals will be considered when naim release their new 500 series.
.sjb
Good grief. Barrack room lawyer…
All over the U.K. people are suffering long waits for police to arrive at proper crime scenes, and we see this pathetic story on the forum.
Get yerself over to mumsnet!
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In the territory of a discrete fast Fourier transform?
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In that case I’m applying for bail pending my appeal!
What is your definition of a ‘proper crime scene’?
Well, most sensible people would say somewhere between a murder scene and a pile of bricks, and probably closer to a murder.
Put yourself in the position of the top copper at any police station. Assaults, robberies, thefts, burglaries, serious traffic accident, and a pile of bricks. Three coppers on shift. A truckload of paperwork required for all incidents. I hope you’d prioritise.
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It would be interesting to see you present that reasoning in court if you were charged with say parking illegally. Where would that come on your scale of things? Is it a ‘proper crime’? Should the court let you off because it isn’t?
How do you know most ‘sensible people’ would agree with you? Have you done a wide-ranging survey, or are you just saying that because you think it (wrongly) adds weight to your argument?
How do you assume the right and responsibility for judging what constitutes a ‘proper crime’? What do you think gives you the right to decide? Do you consider yourself to be above the law?
It’s simply their job. What they are paid to do.
You really are being quite incredible.
The police are undermanned, under-financed, and rarely deal with illegal parking unless it’s causing real issues.
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If it would help here, the forum being a fairly wide ranging and diverse group (albeit with a love of Naim and music as its unifying element), where I would think most would be considered “sensible people”, there are polling tools available so you could test this one out fairly easily.
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This is the last post I will make here as I have better things to do with my life but the issue is (and it has been pointed out many times) not whether a crime has been committed or whether it is bad to block the pavement. The issue people have is the method of reporting
See this from the police website and make your own judgement…
Why is 101 and when should it be used?
101 is the non-emergency contact number for any police force in England and Wales and is available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Using this number reduces pressure on the 999 system, allowing the police to prioritise emergency calls. You should call 101 if you want to talk to your local police officer, get crime prevention advice, or report a crime that does not need an emergency response, for example:
• your car has been stolen
• your property has been damaged
• you suspect drug use or dealing
• you want to report a minor traffic accident, or
• you want to give the police information about crime in your area
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