I agree that some are better and some are worse. I had a CD copy of Bitches Brew on the think double album jewel case that I got back in the early 1990s and I found it hard to get to like the album. When Legacy Edition came out, I acquired that version - it was marked superior to my ears and got me appreciating the album a lot more.
2 Likes
Were they the same mixes?
BTW - I recently purchased an SACD containing the Quadrophonic version of Bitches Brew. Now all I need is a sound system that can play it.
I hope you got it cheaper than the copies currently showing on Discogs!
IME, complex multi-tracked music benefits particularly well from the quad/5.1 treatment. I thought Donald Byrd’s Black Byrd and Street Lady were fairly straightforward productions until I heard the rereleased quad mixes on Vocalion’s SACDs. I don’t think they’re straightforward any more! Plus, going back to my old 2.0 CDs makes them sound very one-dimensional.
Therefore, given how complex Bitches Brew is, I’d say it’s worth trying to listen to it in quad, if only once.
Mark
2 Likes
I bought the Bitches Brew SACD new from Japan. Expensive but not outrageous, but I agree it should be amazing in Quad. I could jury rig a four channel system with stuff I have around - I should - but it would be a temporary setup…
According to the booklet, the tracks from the original album were remixed from the original 8-track masters in 1998 (I think for the Complete Bitches Brew Sessions box set).
I wonder sometimes if the old set I had was just using some sub-master that they had on hand and pressed to CD for convenience without too much consideration for SQ. Not unlike bad copies of films on DVD that were taken from horrible sources.
Could be.
There are lengthy threads on other fora, discussing which is the best version of Bitches Brew. But not much agreement.
I did find a review of the Quad SACD. It includes this:
From an immersionist perspective, Bitches Brew ranks at the top, with fantastic use of all four channels, along with plenty of ear candy for quadroholics. In true 70’s fashion, parts float around the room and Davis’s trumpet blasts across the entire soundstage with delayed echoes reverberating across the back channels. I happen to be a fan of this mixing style, and find it lends to the musical interplay of these extemporaneous sessions.
Gotta check it out.
1 Like
I’ve got a quad vinyl copy of ‘Bitches Brew’ and this post will get me to dig it out from the racks !
1 Like
Sounds like my kinda thing!
I have found generally that more often than not I preferred originals to re-masters, and once I reached that conclusion I have not bothered to seek out re-masters.
1 Like
So what do Members make of the new DGG ‘The Original Source’ series, which has classic 4-track recordings, which have been mixed and cut from the analogue tapes of the recording sessions and pressed at Optimal Media on 180gm vinyl?
They are pretty serious about it too, as the Gilels/Amadeus LP of Schubert’s Trout Quintet omits the original coupling ‘because it was not taped in 4-track’.
Some wonderful recordings too from the likes of Carlos Kleiber, Herbert von Karajan et al.
1 Like
The Rite is wonderful. First class sound, great performance, lovely presentation. I’ve read that it is (perhaps) the best of the bunch soundwise.
Some of the early DGs weren’t great, and the early EMI classical CDs were often ghastly too. I find that there’s no general rule here; there are stinkers to be found with both early/original and later remasters as well as gems.
2 Likes
In my experience the history of classical recordings differs from that of popular music. I don’t see dynamic range reduction as such a significant an issue. Nor do I know of many instances of re-mixing classical recordings (except on rare occasions for surround sound).
On the other hand tape hiss reduction and lousy vinyl were significant issues, which are subject to improvement in remasters. Other issues not readily changeable were/are microphone placement and recording venue.
I no longer have a vinyl set-up, but from what I read, the DG “Original Source” LPs as well as the remastered “Ring” are demonstrations of improved sound.
1 Like
Some classical artists took a great interest in how their records sounded - Benjamin Britten, Herbert von Karajan, Carlos Kleiber were all interested in getting their recordings to sound as good as possible. It’s arguable that DGG allowed Karajan to become too involved in the technical aspects of his own recordings, resulting in his recordings sounding less good than they might have if Herbie had not been allowed to interfere. It’s difficult to imagine Walter Legge at EMI or John Culshaw at Decca allowing any recording artist to interfere in this way.
Other musicians, perhaps the majority, were just content to play the music, and leave it up to the producers and engineers to get the best sound possible.
Intersting, I couldn’t hear much difference last time I did the comparison - going to revisit.
1 Like
Agreed - I didn’t hear a good DG DDD CD until they brought in their slightly oddly-named 4D process in the mid-90s. Even more oddly, DG Arkiv DDD recordings sounded good pretty much from the off - a different recording team, presumably?
After his death, I think DG were prepared to admit to themselves they’d given HvK too much control and in the 90s they did some ‘Original Image-Bit Processing’ (honestly, whose job was it to name these things?) remasters of his early 80s DDD discs that sounded… a bit better.
Mark
1 Like
There’s a story - possibly apocryphal - that George Szell reviewed his recordings through bookshelf speakers in the corners of his office. His inevitable response - “Too much bass.”
What is not apocryphal is the huge difference between the first CD release of his Haydn recordings on Odyssey - the worst sounding stereo CDs I’ve ever heard - and the remasters released in the aughts. I haven’t checked to see if the box set contains more recent remasters.
1 Like
Yes, stumbled across Mediamops about 6 months ago and have bought probably 80% of this recent crop of CDs there. The rest I’ve found in a few shops in Berlin. A great town to browse and buy 2nd hand vinyl and CDs
1 Like
And just ordered the DG OS Debussy/Ravel with Abbado. Two down.
Probably where I’ll stop for these first releases (well, maybe the Mahler…)
I’m awaiting delivery of the Kleiber 7th and Gilels’ Brahms any day now. I’ll base my vote on those. They are expensive, but considerably less than MoFi one-step releases which seem to be a similar methodology. If I like these two then I’ll delve deeper.
1 Like