I have the Naim Ovator S600 speakers and I’m noticing some distortion in the mid-high frequency range.
I would describe it as a shouting/squeaking that occurs sparsely and momentarily on demanding musical sections. It’s a bit strange. I might not hear it at all through an entire song, but there might be moments with intense notes that will make the speakers scream for a moment.
I’ve no idea where to start investigating the issue. The speakers belonged to my father and they were left unused for 4 years, I don’t know if that could be a factor, and I also don’t know if they were this way back then. I’m suspecting the BMR, but only because I’ve no better theory.
I tried with different speakers and could not hear this distortion, so I’m ruling out the rest of the system.
I was thinking that maybe it’s worth going through the retorque process, as I noticed that the leaf spring on the back on one of the speakers does not look correctly aligned. I can post pictures of this if it helps.
@Darkebear I’m tagging you here because I read a very interesting post of yours in the thread
linked below. I think you might be able to help me a bit, and thank you in advance for reading this.
@Vaggoz I’d also like your thoughts since you have the Ovators. Have you ever had any similar issue? By the way, I’m also from Thessaloniki and I’d be happy to contact you so that we could have a chat I just don’t see any private message functionality in these forums.
Thanks everyone in advance! These speakers mean a lot to me and I’d love to have them sound properly again, if possible.
From what you say - first re-torque the leaf-spring assembly at the back of the speaker that houses the BMR chamber.
From memory (do check with Naim) it is 2.5nM.
I will have for mine began there and probably tried slightly less then more on all the same until I was happy they were singing right without ant ‘zing’ (too loose) or ‘blunt deadness’ (too tight).
Do not do it ‘by guessing’ but onlt with an appropriate Torque Driver.
If they are set all a bit different torque it can sound horrid.
Un-tighten a little (not totally loose) - then re-tighten to the Torque setting.
Go listen - is it sounding better or worse?
Try a bit less if detail seem lost - try more if there is a zing or ‘jangle’ sound in there.
…repeat until happy.
You only do this when they have been moved or about every 7-10 years otherwise.
@Darkebear Yesterday I listened to an entire album (Pink Floyd’s Pulse) at relatively high volume and there were very few moments where I could hear distortions. Given this, do you think we can rule out unrepairable damage? I’m concerned because I know that the BMR cannot be replaced anymore, so I’m hoping this issue is not a serious one.
I’ll get a proper Torque Driver to retorque. Any recommendations? Also, can I do any serious damage during this process? Should I avoid touching something?
It is probably OK. If the chamber the BMR sits in which has the leaf-springs attaching it secured on the back has any of these a bit loose it can make that effect. They resonate only at specific frequencies and if a little loose they will ‘ping’ or rattle when that frequency is in the music and otherwise not.
But I’m not there so this is just a guess!
Get the torque wrench first and the appropriate set of driver heads to fit the bolts.
Then tweak the back four bolts as previously described.
Then if still with problems the front BMR ring of bolts on the outer flange of the plate that secures it to the speaker cabinet - slightly loosen each bolt and thentighten and re-torque to just under 2nM ( I found 1.97 was the sweat-spot, but that was just with the particular driver I have).
Do these in a loop around and not ‘side-to-side’ as that can micro-distort the plate and you hear that; just nip them all up to the torque in a circle around the driver plate, clockwise for example.
I’ve gone into detail as I’ve seen people do this wrongly on other speakers, get annoyed and then sell their speakers as being ‘no good anymore’ - and it was themselves that made them go off.
Perhaps speaker manufacturers should give this maintenance advice - but then they would sell fewer speakers over time as people get tired of their speakers and do not realise they can be brought back to life with a little understanding and care.
I’ve said speakers are in some ways similar to musical instruments in that they have many parts that fit-together and have their own resonance characters that can be tuned to optimise the end results.
If someone buys a perfectly tuned instrument and it drifts-off they will re-tune it and actually listen to what they do, rather than wildly just tighten stuff then throw it away - but people do this with speakers and it is sad, unless you have lots of money and want a change!
Thanks again for all the answers everyone, I really appreciate your help.
No, I don’t think the transit bolts are in place (if I’ve understood correctly where they go).
Regarding how I drive them: I’ve no idea, but it’s a stack of Naim stuff (the forum won’t let me post more than one picture). There’s dust and the cables are also a mess.
I also posted a picture of the leaf spring on the back of one speaker. You can obviously see that someone has tightened this without care, since some sections are protruding more than others. I guess these should be all level, right?
I did some more listening today at higher volumes today and the issue was much more noticeable (on certain sections). So, on high-volume soprano notes like you said, there was squeaky and crunchy screaming which sometimes lasted more than a moment. It really sounded like something is broken. I played with the balance adjuster and found that it is mostly (if not totally) on one speaker. @Ardbeg10y was your issue also very noticeable and consistent at higher volumes?
But, in “simpler” songs everything sounds pretty much fine, treble is great, voices are fine, as long as there are no many intense mid-high frequencies together. If the BMR was actually damaged, wouldn’t there be issues in every song?
I guess I’ll have to follow your advice and see what happens. Hopefully I won’t have to replace these speakers.
One more question: could I cause damage by turning on/off the system components in the wrong sequence? Sometimes, I can hear a (not loud) “pop” noise when I turn them on or off. Is there a correct sequence?
For me the breakthrough was replacing the interlinks between the Snaxo (crossover) and the poweramps. Once I’ve done that, the issue went away. After that I could turn up the music as far as I want and I do remember my wife entering the room and I could only see her lips moving but not hear any voice
We really need to know what boxes you have since setup is key in these highend systems. How many speaker runs do you have per loudspeaker?
At the beginning of my 600s ownership, a sort of buzzing noise occured on the right speaker at a specific frequency, something like 2.8k iirc, essentialy with two records like the guitar on the 2nd track of Pat Metheny Watercolours and another one of solo piano. I had to go through no less than two new BMR replaced by LASA. Seven years now from then, crossing fingers, they have worked faultlessly. My guess is that probably the 600’s BMR having a large diameter than either 400&800 is more fragile
What did you have before and after the change - just renewing the leads or was there one or more faulty?
Which type of leads in that position do you use?
As a fellow SNAXO-Ovator owner I’m always interested in issues and fixes.
The top one is for CD, the next is irrelevant. I guess the two bottom ones are one for each speaker. Btw I’d be grateful if you could tell me which does what.
DB, I have humble Nap 200’s. These come with standard 4 pin snaics and they have a different capacitance / inductance (or whatever, I’m just parrotting something I don’t understand) than the leads used for regulated poweramps. Naim has developed certain ‘Active Leads’ so that unregulated poweramps remain stable when fed by a Snaxo.
You have quite a lot of boxes in a small space which is suboptimal and riskful.
The pre-amplifier is certainly not in the right position. It is in between two hicaps and 135’s and a supercap which is most unfortunate. These boxes have big transformers causing a lot of noise.
Can you move the pre-amplifier temporarily out of the rack so that it’s not inbetween all those heavy transformers? Make sure you pull out and push in the connectors a few times so that they make good contact. Ensure the power leads are away from signal cables including loudspeaker cables.
One more thing: this gear is really worth it. You may not get it working as expected easily, but keep the spirit it will be great.
Great speakers, as far as torque settings are concerned, there are three speakers, two settings the same and the BMR is a lesser setting at 2.0nM. There are also torque settings on the base, but to do those, you will have to insert the transit bolts on the BMR units, since you will have to place the speakers on their sides.
If you ask @Richard.Dane he will I am sure, send you a pdf of the S600 torque sheet (he had a copy from me some time ago).
If the units have been moved, were the transit bolts put in place?
Clarification as to whether you are running the speakers passive or active would be useful.
I’m unclear whether you have clarified that durign the thread. Easiest way is to see how many speaker cables run to the rear of the speakers. If one, then passive, two or even three will likely be active, if using naca5.
As far as doing anything with the speakers, it is not just the BMR units which are no longer available. There a no spares at all, unless a dealer has anything squirrelled away.
To remove the grills take two small size allen keys and at opposite edges of the grill very gently easy forward, as equal as you can. If they haven’t been off previously, they may be stiff. Keep the the same position when refitting - best not to introduce any rotation.
I just don’t see any private message functionality in these forums.
Indeed - if they are in place…!
