I’ve recently moved to SuperNait again, because it’s one box, is powerful, has a good DAC onboard and its preamp can be powered by a dedicated PSU, which I have. In theory, a very sensible solution for just home music.
I am aware of its limits, it’s my fourth or fifth one. The only ideal alternative to it, as far as my personal experience and taste go, would be 252/300, but it’s four boxes and a lot of money.
After some thoughts and listening sessions, I chose to keep IBLs and sell the Sats. IBLs have a greater number of qualities, as well as a greater number of requests and caveats. I never keep multiples, so if something stays the rest goes. After many Sats, I am aware of what I am saluting.
I am also aware that a SN may not be the perfect partner for IBLs - although their nominal power handling is said to be 65 watts. Yet, with good CDs or LPs the IBLs’ lack of deep bass is not detrimental to pleasure, and their mix of refinement, authority and monitor-like clarity is a good resource when critical listening is involved (always, in my case).
But I am left with a feeling of insufficient optimization. I know that IBLs could restitute more. So here’s my impasse:
Keep the SN for its convenience and medium/high quality and use less demanding speakers.
Keep the IBLs and use something affordable and more capable than the SN. My dealer has a non-DR 250 at a good price, and a 282/HC. I could accomodate the boxes. I’m not a huge fan of 282/250 but I acknowledge their major objective qualities.
Keep everything as it is and try to ignore the itch - something that’s proven a chimera over the years.
I’ve experimented a lot. In short, home audio is not for me really but I can’t live without a stereo. And I can’t renounce the honest, clever directness of Naim loudspeakers. I’ve listened to anything else and anything else has turned out boring.
You posted recently that you were not keen on the 282, and have said the same in this thread. So why on earth would you buy one? The original 250 sounds slow and too weighty to me and I’d avoid it.
When I had IBLs I used them with an olive set of 82, Hicap and 250 and they were very good indeed, tight, fast and very musical. I wouldn’t use them with lesser amplification, and that includes the original Supernait.
The IBL is from the Olive era, maybe even CB, and it’s satisfying to have something contemporaneous. You could even have the appropriate phono cards and lose the Stageline.
All that said, the IBLs are very upfront and while they were wonderful 30 years ago, is that what one wants now? I’ve had many Naim speakers over the decades and found them hugely enjoyable. You say all the other speakers you’ve tried are boring. But are they really, or do you just convince yourself that they are? Surely the real test is whether speakers can make piano music sound like a real piano, which I know is something close to your heart. Might a Nova and some Sonus Fabers be all you need - minimalist with lovely design and a less in your face sound? Might going in a new direction be more fruitful than trying to recapture a lost past?
I ran IBLs for many years and loved them. I would agree they need decent amps, but on the end of something good enough, they can be amazing.
I would also agree that the non-DR 250 was not the most impressive thing Naim ever came up with and was never particularly impressed with the 82 either (not very familiar with the 282). It also seems daft to go with something you already know you don’t particularly care for.
I’d be thinking 52/olive 250 in your shoes. I used that with IBLs for years and it was only a move to 552/500 which saw them leaving the building.
Hi Max I’m a fan of the Supernait’s simplicity and use a Mk2 with Dynaudio speakers which personally I really enjoy.
As to your other question I found and again this is just my personal experience that the 82/250 was better than the 282/250 unless you can stretch to the 250DR.
Personally though I wouldn’t rush to start box swapping to accommodate the IBL’s and would keep the all round simplicity of the Supernait with a different speaker.
One relatively inexpensive option would be to use the SN purely as a pre amp, and just add an olive 250 (or 135s). As others have said, I wouldn’t go near a 282 if you have an uncomfortable feeling about it.
thanks for your articulate and considered reply. I know you are using a Nova, and I agree that it’s the best in the Uniti range; but I don’t need (so far) the streaming facilities. And as for Sonus Faber, I have never been a huge fan of the brand - not after, say, the late 90/early 00s.
Your last sentence obviously rings more than one bell. And in principle I agree to it too, on more than one level. A new direction could be revitalizing. I’ll try to keep a fresh perspective on my options.
Hi Max, I saw my name mentioned again, so thought I would break from work now to reply.
Looking at your iBLs they look great in that finish, and if in good working condition I see/read no reason why you should think about changing them.
I have owned mine for 30+ years, updated to Mk2 at the factory in the mid 90’s, and I replaced the tweeters in March 2023 for new - but exactly the same type. In that time, whatever I have connected to them they have always sounded great, and have presented recorded music faithfully as a very enjoyable performance, and as you say - never boring! Certainly, the realism of instruments with iBLs has never been an issue for me.
I used them with a Supernait2 only, for a number of years, and they worked fine - with a HiCapDR and a NAP250DR they worked even better… now with a NAC332 and NAP350’s they sound incredible! My music buddy was here at the weekend, and he was amazed at the soundstage, detail and music quality the system was providing. My view, is that more power is good for these loudspeakers, but not essential, and I feel the the SN + iBLs can work very well together.
My advice, is in the first instance is to replace the FC2 with a Hi-CapDr - this should be much better and it may be all you need. I took a look at your current system profile and picture → Note - by having this new half-width power supply positioned on its own, away from the SN it will improve sound quality further.
Thanks Geoff. I now have a sufficient range of opinions.
As I wrote, I think that in spite of their physical and conceptual age, IBLs are interesting and totally unconventional, able to give back some life-like moments in music. HH is also right, though, in that I could benefit from a renovation (on multiple levels…).
Hi Geoffc, i have IBL S1, '89 build, in active mode, with 202/Hc DR/ Snaxo/2x 200. Do you know whether Is still possible to upgrade them to S2 spec? Also, would It be the case to replace the internal foam? It seems that a few DBLs one was pretty much destroyed
Sorry, I can’t help you, except to say you would need to source replacement bass drivers which I believe was the main change for the Mk1 to the Mk2, though there were other tweaks included including the foam possibly.
Mine were updated in the early 90’s, and I don’t know what all the changes were, as I dropped them off at the factory late one morning and collected them late afternoon the same day - a benefit of my working relationship with naim management!
If you search online for “Dealer Instructions for Naim IBL driver replacement” you should find some useful information.
Max, my old forum friend, you probably know this is the wisest choice?
I’ve got to the stage that I actually find (potential) upgrades a bit daunting and find the initial change disconcerting as I thrash around trying to hear the improvements and now invariably end up in poorer form after the “upgrade” process. How long does it take for improvements to be the new now and once again one will think - there may be more -
There’s always more, always better, always different, but when we get a nice pizza in a restaurant do we not just enjoy the pizza and not worry about the better pizzas that may be out there?
Enjoy the musical food your system is nourishing you with Max.
Dear John,
yes, I know. To answer you implicit question - about one week, maybe less. My satisfaction span with the new gets shorter and shorter. Moreover, these are not times of huge pleasure and excitement… To finally be content with what is there would be a great achievement.
I looked daunting: an interesting choice of word. Age can bring that feeling, along with others. I will try to notice how many things can be uselessly daunting.
You’ve clearly given this a lot of thought. If your satisfaction really does last such a short time, nothing will ultimately be more enjoyable than what you have now. I’d try promising yourself that you will change nothing for a whole year. If you stick with it, maybe you will regain that long term satisfaction. Another solution may be to put the whole system in a cupboard and to see whether you actually miss it.
