Poll - New firmware: sound upgrade or downgrade?

Is this without the new power board thing you added?

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Yes.

The LP12 sounds majestic. The ND555 sounds very good but HF shrill.

Just like alot on here with 2 x 555PSDR and switches.

I gave things time. It still sounds very good but it sounds like it’s on steroids. Not quite right.

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At first I thought it might be Puritan 156. But it isn’t as that has settled in and sounds suoerb with LP12.

They need to turn the treble down by 2 notches old school and maybe the bass up by one notch!

I know my system. I know my sounds. My hearing is good. This isn’t the Puritan as the LP12 sounds better than ever.

It’s not a mssive change that is required. I can understand how the HF excess can sound fatiguing. I am still enjoying the sound but it isn’t quite right.

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I need to investigate further, I’ve been playing the LP12 mostly - I might try some CDs using the bluray transport I have into the ND555,

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I think Naim will sort it out. But it will take time. It means more time enjoying my LP12! And you, yours.

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What’s your bass like? I’m finding it rather slow, dull and tonally bland compared to the previous FW. Nothing I’ve tried fixes this.

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Unless they can identify what is happening and either provide a solution that works for all, or a dual approach whether based on specific gear or with ability to try one first and change to the other if adverse for them, and revers. But the first thing is for them to recognise that over 10% of the sample on here including some of the highest spenders are far from happy, and let the individuals affected know they are aware rather than a dismissive standard reply, which is what seems so far to have been done. Whilst indeed they have to be careful what they say, no or apparently dismissiveor disinterested communication will only push people away.

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The bass isn’t as deep or as dark. It sounds a bit limp compared to LP12.

Turn it up and it sounds better. But bass needs to go up +1 at least. It needs more control too.

However, LP12 sounds great. ND555 doesn’t sound as good as it did before.

I don’t really see how they could have not noticed these changes if they had tested on the ND555 with 2 x 555PSDR. They should have got things right.

With these things, and I know in my business as well, you get one chance to get things right. When it’s wrong, you can’t sugar coat it, it’s wrong.

Naim needs to put this right for everyone.

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I’m a bit reticent to get involved here as I’m not affected by any of this but two things strike me.

  1. It would not take too much from Naim to come on one of the threads here and say that they’re aware of the difficulties that a number of uses are having and they’re working on a solution. They don’t have to go on Instagram and Facebook and announce this just on one of these threads that are already talking about this issue. I cannot see that being a big media event.

  2. There must be a built-in way to go back to previous firmware. It isn’t conceivable that they won’t have this capacity inbuilt as there could just be something that would wreck 50% of Naim streamers due to bad code and it has to be a fallback method in case this ever happened. Why this isn’t made available (perhaps through dealers) to some of the people affected is a mystery to me. It doesn’t seem beyond the realms of what can be done to ask people who are having difficulties to contact their dealer and for the dealers to have a way to “update” to the previous firmware.

The fact that neither of these two things appear to have been done is not a great reflection on the Naim that most of us on here know and love. Some of the people experiencing problems are stalwarts of the forum and could even be thought of as brand ambassadors for Naim - they really deserve better than this.

.sjb

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Welcome to the club!

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Thanks and agreed
I understand that there are contracts with the streaming service - meaning the tidal company would like to have the users get there products and more subscribers.
But I do have a „contract“ with naim too. I bought their products. And with the fw (where no change in sq was intended afaik) there went something wrong.
It has been weeks with standard mail communication and refusal of rollback. My patience is limited…
If I had not done so much effort (and money spend) to reach the system sounding a few weeks ago, I would have canceled my relationship.
There is no need to answer here in the forum - email will do. And a rollback till new fw is out is - in my opinion - the right and only way to compensate the „stress and pain“ we are having here.

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I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, my ND could give my LP12 a close run for its money before the update. Not any more. My LP12 is miles better than the ND now. It shows up all the new FW weaknesses!

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Well if there are vulnerabilities addressed in the new code compared to the older code, there would be potentially legal reasons why such things could not be done or offered formally.
If a user was to compromise their system themselves and put code with un addressed exposed vulnerabilities on then they have taken the risk, but a product manufacturer or retailer it’s different.
Firmware in the era cyber security under current UK legislation , for internet connecting devices carries the same sort of legal considerations as mains wiring.

If there are no vulnerabilities addressed in the code due to exposed vulnerabilities, then this becomes a lot easier legally and simply becomes about consumer choice and taste. To be critical however, the release notes of such firmware do appear a little vague to allow the user to make an informed decision.

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There are some who are happy with the update.

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Naim are aware of the issues that some people are facing. I’m sure it’s already been said on here, so I’m not giving away anything confidential, that they are working on functionality fixes, and once they are fully tested, SQ tuning of the firmware can then take place. I’m very hopeful that the beta group, which includes people with twin PS 555 setups, will get the opportunity to assess the tuned firmware in a range of real world environments, though of course the decisions rest solely with Naim.

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It’s an interesting aspect of this situation, as a second PS isn’t universally preferred over a single one for those aspects people are now talking about with the firmware update. On my set-up, the new firmware is an improvement in every regard, but most noticeably detail, dynamic range/depth and much more open soundstage similiar to good vinyl.

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Exactly. The ND555 was designed with one PS that powers both analogue and digital inputs. Adding a second PS pushes it further, and then adding further tweaks can take things over the edge, and give the sort of results that some are finding. I will now bite my tongue!

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White papers says ND555 can be upgraded with 2ps and super lumina. I would question saying it was developed with one ps if white papers say the below signed off by Steve Sells.

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What Sloop_John_B said is entirely fair and Naim has built the firmware reversion method into the devices. The process is very straightforward.

The release notes mention nothing about addressing vulnerabilities, that is speculation.
Nor did they cover the change in sound quality, likely the most important aspect to anyone on this forum.

What Naim have publicly stated is that we are stuck with sound quality issue due to a licensing requirement with one of their vendors.
Not a good look and not a position we should have been silently left in.

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Indeed as per my post… and I think personal security is equally important to people on this forum… there are possibly many high worth individuals in this forum who would make interesting targets for the fastest growing crime area in the UK… perhaps in part due to the incredible naivity of many of certain age groups.

There have been other posts that referenced Naim’s certified compliance with PSTI, The Product Security and Telecommunications Infrastructure Act 2022 (security requirements for internet-connectable products and products capable of connecting to such), just not clear when they do it in their patches throughout the certified support period.

Yes I am familiar in this area, perhaps compared to many on this forum, as this area of managing risk exposure to organisations and consumers including from embedded systems is what I do in part for a living.

You wouldn’t plug a product that had been discovered faulty into the mains if you could get a shock, but potentially you are willing to connect a piece of vulnerable software to the internet that could help you to be a victim of cyber crime…

Yes architecturally I would design the products differently from Naim to mitigate these issues of SQ vs patching, but then they have consumer productisation and commercialisation issues to manage as well.

So for clarity if software update clearly stated that it contained no PSTI updates then it could be swapped out with no risk, to suit consumer taste. Remember PSTI vulnerability patches could also come within third party SDKs like from Apple or Tidal.

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