I am currently running
Apple router → Cisco 2960 Switch → Uniti Core → NDS → 252/300.
Thanks to all the Naimie in a thread, the move to the Cisco switch made a Huge difference, I don’t know how/why but it just did.
So I am wondering if anyone had any experience / or done comparison if there is a need to make the power “Cleaner” that going into the Router/Cisco Switch/Uniti Core chain make any noticeable difference? The end goal here is to improve SQ with best VFM options.
FYI, I was shock how much difference a LAN cable makes between the router/Uniti Core/NDS chain can make! I thought those are only data cables (101010…), what the hell??? but switching from an unknown brand to a Phillips Cat7 makes night and day difference.
Does anyone can share some thought or recommendation will be much appreciated!
From a network / NAS point of view, best use provided power supplies as they have right decoupling to minimise EM radiation. If you are worried about noise on the mains, plug into separate radial, ring, or mains conditioner.
Network components use special switch mode DC converters inside anyway to get the correct voltages for the Ethernet serial lines.
Broadband routers, especially VDSL or quality ADSL will generally have relatively low noise powersupplies, as noise leakage here can inadvertently affect xDSL performance that can be extremely sensitive to high frequency electrical noise, more so than Hi-Fi. For that reason keep your xDSL router and wiring away from sources of electrical noise.
Finally best keep network components and cables as far away as your audio equipment where possible. The frequencies that Ethernet use can cause intermodulation issues in sensitive audio components through coupling as I found out several years ago.
I already separate my Naim equipment (with dedicated power from main fuse box).
But the rest like router/switch/NAS/Uniti Core all share same main fuse circuit with TV, fridge…etc
Hi Simon, knowing you are from one of the Naimie regarding the Roonifying NDS, you have any idea of my other query of how to do it for an IT dummy like me?
Hi Ken, I am afraid I have no experience of Roon with the NDS, I use Roon with the NDX2 currently, and Roon is built in.
I think you would need a Roon end point bridge with SPDIF or upnp output for the NDS. There are various DIY offerings out there using a RPi… but probably require a bit of know how.
Others may be able to comment better.
I have a good but not expensive Supra power strip (non surge) and two iFi AC iPurifiers plugged into in it in the server closet (Roon NUC, opticalModule, modem, Cisco switch etc). Made a nice positive tightening up of the sound imo. YMMV. The AC iPurifiers are nice because they can be moved to wherever you need them.
Hello Ken,
I have tried a number of switches and have ended up with the Silent Angel Bonn with the bespoke Forester linear power supply. The SQ improvement is enormous. My system is Core, NDX, Naim DAC, 252/300
Thank you all for your recommendations.
I might try some BJC Cat6a LAN cable to see if there is a more noticeable improvement over my Philips Cat7 first.
While not audiophile, I have upgraded to a Netgear GS108 switch with a spare iFi Xpower power supply (12v). I use all Cat8 cables due to the shielding of individual pairs and the entire cable. I also use a larger in-line transformer for the ethernet cable run from my switch to my streamer (Node2i). This is the Tripp Lite MI 1005 in line network isolator.
A BJC cat8 connects the switch to my mesh router access point. Other cat8 cables are just well-reviewed options from Amazon in appropriate lengths.
All this was done incrementally and each step helped timing and blackness of background. My Node2i also sees lower latency and is more responsive to control inputs from my phone.
For global power protection, I use a 2.4kva Topaz Isolation Transformer (.001pf) into a Furman Elite 15 PFi (Elite 20 PFi in order). The Furman powers my two integrated amps (alternately SN3 and Line Magnetic LM805IA), my Node2i streamer, and my RME ADI-2 FS v2 DAC (with iFi Elite power supply).
All other devices are run into a separate breaker/outlet in to a Panamax 5100. The only bridge between the two sides of the setup is the cat8 → TrippLite Ethernet isolator → cat8 → Node2i
I’m with you on utilizing an Isolation Transformer upstream in the chain. I’ve used an older industrial PowerVar for some time to connect router/switches, and have recently gone the Topaz IT route (after some length of researching online) with low inter-winding capacitance at 0.0005pF. A very worthwhile investment, IMO. But you’re right in that every incremental addition can be quite useful in achieving a quieter line/system.
I couldn’t find a .0005pf version (31/32 series) so I grabbed a well cared for .001pf. The Furman Elite PFi, designed by Garth Powell (who went to AudioQuest to design the Niagara 3k/5k/7k), serves to reduce the output impedance of the current supply from the transformer. I’ve sized my Topaz to be 3x the peak power draw of my full setup. This has reduced hum to only be audible from a few inches and reduces interwinding heating.
Your Xformer is not just lower in interwinding capacitance, but it also has an additional capacitor between legs to reduce common mode noise even further.
Very interesting to hear. I wasn’t aware of your last statement. I haven’t had any ground loop issues or hum in my current system and setup, but I figured start at the networking source and mitigate the potential of noise as much as possible.
I will write a little on the side of the thread. But can it better to rely on WiFi? I assume that electric voltage and electronics from unknown suppliers (physical connection) can cause harmful noise and lower SQ. Therefore, the fewer unnecessary cables, the better. I also assume that Naim tries to minimize noise from WiFi, which we need to control anyway.
Therefore, it’s not better to put a good WiFi router to improve SQ (minimize noise)?
I have a fanless Linux server with a fast SSD and an Asset UPnP.
The connection looks like this:
Asset Server → (Cable) → Router ASUS RT-AX86U → (WiFi) → Nova
Everything works very well. DSD128 / DXD files are quickly loaded.
So why not disconnect physically Uniti Core from NDS? Am I wrong?
I know it can be a less audiophilic approach, but I’m trying to understand the issue
from the technical side ;).
Yes there can be advantages (and disadvantages) to wifi… best try it… it’s easy to do. If preferable to Ethernet from a SQ perspective in your setup then use it.
There are methods one can use in wifi to help inter slice timing consistency on the radio which could help SQ, especially if there are other heavy users on the SSID. The technique is called WMM. However the Naim streamers themselves don’t support WMM, so it will be one way only, but the important way.
Ubiquiti wifi access points for example support WMM, and map it from Ethernet DSCP values which would likely need to be set on a configurable / manageable switch.
No doubt. Many have made that comment as well. You think that’s a stretch, apparently there’s a 0.0001pF version as well once made by Topaz, Xentek and a couple others.
Assuming they’re wired correctly
You really have to pay attention to these older secondhand units, as many were DIY-ed or altered with, I swear, safety a secondary consideration. The PowerVar (ABC1200-11 model) I’ve owned as far back as I can remember doesn’t publish their specs like the Topaz, so I always wondered how effective they were comparatively with the myriad of others out there. In my last house, it provided an appreciable difference, so I knew it was a solid piece of gear. In our new house, it has been tough to tell. It doesn’t help that I’ve been experimenting and switching out other ancillary networking equipment lately, either. In theory, though, I’ve always held ITs in high regard for the exact reasons you’re mentioning, and it stands to reason the router and switch would benefit from one as quality made as the Topaz unit.
To add to the overkill, I also have a PS Audio power regenerator in my actual room/on the rack and cannot say enough good things about it. Completely different in what it tries to achieve, but it was a game-changer in my system the moment I plugged everything into it. It’s extremely difficult to articulate how dead silent and proverbially clarion-like my system is now. Due to this, it really has made the soundstage quite defined; the music simple to follow; instruments, bass and sounds carefully etched into the picture.
I don’t know about power conditioning as the thread title asks about, as I’ve never bothered owning any so long as I’ve owned Naim gear, but surge or noise suppression? This is typically a good idea, IMO. Iso-Trannies upstream? If implemented well—absolutely.
I have my modem, router, NAS, TV, Cable Box and Sound Bar all running into SurgeX , series mode surge protection units. One for network stuff, one for TV stuff. Main system is in another part of the house and is plugged into Shunyata Denali 6000s/ v2 etc.
