Pro Ac D2R - what’s next?

I just heard some Borrenson speakers at an Audio show. Only $100000! That’s what I would trade my Proacs for lol.

1 Like

I have a Nova (which I really like btw) and found a good match with Spendor A4, also easy room placement in my opinion. I almost purchased them but the dealer had a nearly new Harbeth SLH5 XD in on trade for larger Harbeth’s. They really worked for me. I listen to a lot of small combo jazz, acoustic music and some classical. If accuracy, timber and naturalness are your criteria give them a try. I found the Spendor A4 nd A6 sounded great as well.

2 Likes

I am not sure about the sound quality of the Nova. The speakers are only reproducing the quality or sound of the upstream components. With a good source/DAC and amp, I suspect the Proac will sound noticeably better.

I’m wondering why you feel the need to constantly fiddle with the positioning of the speakers after a long period of ownership, and why you think it might be different with other speakers. Can you pinpoint exactly what is wrong with the sound, other than something like ‘not quite right’? Do you get a solid soundstage where the speakers disappear and there is no hole in the middle.

My room is 3.6m wide and I sit on the sofa hard against the back wall. The speakers are against the wall, so the front of speaker to back wall distance is probably about the same as in your room. My speakers are 1.8m apart centre to centre. Yours seem an awfully long way apart and I wonder if that’s the issue.

The way I’ve long set speakers up, following advice on here, is to start with them pointing straight ahead, then toe them in until you get a solid central image on vocals. Once done you should never have to touch them again. I’d suggest it’s worth doing this before throwing the baby out with the bath water. You may have the same issues with other speakers so it’s worth getting the current ones right.

You’ve had advice to spend a lot of money on better electronics, but that won’t solve the problem if your speakers aren’t set up properly. I’d also question your stands, which look rather flimsy from the photo, with the single central column.

So I suggest you put them about 180 to 200 cm apart and then do the toeing in thing and report back.

6 Likes

Thanks HH, this is good advice and is something I have done before to some degree, but I’ve never quite arrived at a satisfactory resting point.

I listen to a fair amount of various types of music, mostly moderately loud, and I often find myself less engaged by the music and more preoccupied by thinking about does it sound right.

This of course, may have little to do with the speakers and far more to do with me and my interaction with the music and all the other things that go on in one’s head. But the speakers or even other parts of my system are a tangible presence so that’s why I often find myself not quite at ease with the sound.

But in the meantime, it’s worth getting the tape measure out and giving it another go.

I bought these at the same time as the unfortunately finished Pro Acs. They’re fairly substantial Dynaudios, which maybe don’t come across as being too substantial in the photo.

Good advice about not chucking further cash at a problem that’s possibly fixable in house.

Maybe you just fancy a change of speaker. The ProAcs just might not be for you. I would try to at least to home demo another pair of speakers that are more simpler to install, like ones with only one pair of speaker sockets for instance. If you feel the need to faff around so much then clearly something isn’t quite right. Maybe have your NAC A5 checked by your dealer, just to make sure they are bonded (soldered) correctly.

The NEATs i suggested earlier are very much plonk & play with very little toe in required, and match Naim kit very well.

1 Like

Actually, I had a similar issue with my Nova, with the sound always being a bit off. Indeed, one of the A5 plugs was loosely soldered, once fixed, all was well. You could unscrew them yourself to check.

2 Likes

Well, I sincerely hope you can get it right and get to a place where you can forget the system and just enjoy the music. As I expect you know, I use a NDX2 and Supernait 3 with my Tablette 10s. I tried a Nova in the hope that I could simplify things but sadly it just didn’t deliver. It was very precise but somehow unengaging, and a lot of the bass seemed to disappear. I suspect that NDX2/SN3 really is the minimum for your speakers. The challenge of course is to identify whether your dissatisfaction is due to shortcomings in speaker placement, or whether it’s due to inadequate electronics.

I deliberately didn’t go here in my first reply as it’s always best to try to fix what you’ve got before splashing the case. Just because I wasn’t happy with the Nova and the 10s in no way means that the Nova and the D2R isn’t a match made in heaven. I really would try putting them 2m apart and see what happens.

5 Likes

I suspect Mike that it’s a very common problem, and one a lot folks will be unaware of. It’s caught me out many times in the past, and i can solder. A single pair of speaker sockets really does make things so much easier. Well worth having the dealer listen to them, then concentrate on the speakers.

1 Like

Yes, a reason I prefer banana plugs. Anyway, for the OP a quick unscrew and check would be worthwhile, along with HH’s suggestion of getting the speakers closer together are free worthwhile checks.

1 Like

Hi,

I’m not using this speaker cable. A few months ago I swapped out my Tellurium Silver II for a cheaper QED set. The Tellurium’s weren’t long enough for my new house’s listening room. (These much more expensive cables now reside at another property in a much older and more basic set up. Rather mismatched!)

Which perhaps explains, in part, the possible problem at play here. My sideboard which houses most of my kit - Nova, centre speaker, AV amp, UHD player - necessitates keeping the speakers a minimum of 2.5m apart.

Hi Charles,

may i suggest that you go to your dealer, tell him what speakers you have, maybe ask to home trial some NAC A5 with all the suitable connectors fitted at your required lengths? This maybe the answer to your current problem and no need to change the speakers. Got to be worth a shot. After all you could always hand the cables back if not satisfied…i’m sure your dealer will understand.

1 Like

It’s a possible good idea.

Can I ask what is it about the NAC A5 that you think could be the crucial missing element here?

Yes indeed, and presumably for good reason, it’s a combo that gets a lot of mentions here, and often in comparison to a Nova orientated set up.

I’m currently experimenting with shortening the gap between my speakers, as much as my sideboard allows, and slowly inching towards a hard toe-in positioning.

Thanks for the input & thoughts.

I suspect the elephant in the room here, as HH mentioned above, is probably the Nova. I had a similar dilemma with a Nova & Spendor A7’s, in the end it got the chop followed a while later by the A7’s. Possibly the synergy of both components and how they interact in your room is just not working. If you’re not mad about the white D2R’s perhaps testing other speakers at home to find something that gels with the Nova is the way to go rather than falling in to the trap of changing everything. The Nova is fine for what it is but needs careful and sympathetic speaker matching imo and maybe the D2R’s are showing up its shortcomings.

2 Likes

This thought is a recurring theme and there only seems to be one way to resolve this. Maybe I just need a good home demo of NDX2/SN3.

Regarding the SN3, could I save a bit of cash and get an SN2? I don’t need the phono (MM only?) of the SN3, as I have a Vertere phono 1 pre which does a great job with my LP12 with its Ortofon MC cart.

Or is there substantially more to the SN3 over the SN2 beyond the added phono stage on board?

Thanks.

Another option worth considering would be a ‘graded’ SN3, I see my dealer has a few of these, new with slight casework blemish, for about £3K, with warranty.

2 Likes

The SN3 has significant improvements in the output stage, which improves bottom end performance. But, as said above, maybe getting more sympathetic speakers may be a better way to go, especially as you don’t like the colour. PMC twenty5.21s could be a good option, as suggested by @crispyduck.

1 Like

yes I would definitely start out by testing other speakers with the Nova and see what that brings before looking at upgrading all components

ProAc D2R present an easy load to amplifier (min impedance 6 ohm with phase angle slightly front running but mirroring impedance curve) so I’d be surprised if Nova was the issue.
If colour is a key factor then yes you probably need to change speaker!
Cable may be issue but a decent dealer should be able to supply some NAC A5, to demo, as a bench mark (then you can fine tune with others to suit tastes).
The listening symmetry looks most problematic though so would focus on that!
Not saying spending c£9k on new electronics wouldn’t sound better though.
Good luck.

1 Like