I’ve said a few times that I think Naim don’t feel the cost to include an MConnect-like bridge in their app is worth the hassle or the cost just to support legacy hardware. Possible, yes. Worth it, no… hence why they haven’t done it.
I don’t work for Naim, but it seems like a reasonable business decision to me. It seems unreasonable to you and the OP. Fair enough.
what is to stop Naim adding a UPnP streaming platform gateway for Qobuz into the Naim app, the same as MConnect?
This part felt pretty personal after the diversion on when Bop Til You Drop came out…
My observation is that thread diversion and inquiry into possible technical reasons are inadequate to explain the lack of this or that feature are a natural consequence of not liking, or perhaps not reading, suggested answers. It’s over three weeks of (to me and I hope to at least some others) discussion on the mechanics of implementing a solution since I said explicitly that it isn’t technically impossible, it’s just not worth it to Naim… but what other reason could there really be?
Sorry I promised to butt out but I am the OP and perhaps someone can give a little more information as I’m still struggling with what the real technical issue is, as I think I’m reading different reasons from different posters, unless it’s me and if so I apologise in advance. I think I’ve learnt a lot round the houses in the thread, so thanks everyone for chipping in.
If I understand correctly, the Naim app and MConnect are control points only and the Gen 1 streamers actually PULL the UPnP stream, as opposed to push from the app.
BTW regarding some of your posts above it’s worth noting Naim UPnP renderer in the streamer uses the pull approach… some other control points such as those that control BubbleUPnPServer are server push… which is why there is a difference and why the Naim app won’t work with Bubble… as the Naim app actually communicates with the streamer, for playback functions. The streamer itself however will accept Naim pull or third party push.
Also:
Apps that act as UPnP controllers are nothing but a remote. Like a television remote. Or an amplifier remote. That is their technical function.
That makes sense, as when I start a stream with MConnect, the Naim app recognises it as well and I can stop/re-start the stream from either app. Although not start a stream from the Naim app or browse Qobuz.
The Gen 1 streamer clearly recognises the UPnP stream, it lights up UPnP.
Qobuz browsing is enabled in the Naim app for the Gen 2 streamers, including search and starting/stopping the stream. So the code must be in the app for all of that, except for the Gen 1 streamers it’s disabled and the start stream would be to initiate a UPnP pull at the streamer.
So my question is, why would it be so difficult to start a Qobuz stream from the app that the Gen 1 streamer pulls (as per MConnect), stop and re-start the stream is already there regardless of which streamer board and enable the Qobuz search and browsing from Gen 2? It doesn’t sound like rocket science at that level, unless I’ve completely misunderstood some of what is said above?
I have opened a thread on Mconnect vs Naim app some weeks ago. Some say that with Mconnect the signal is passing through the IPad or IPhone, because if you switch off them the music stops.
All I can say is that there’s a real difference in sound with both apps, I compared during several days and moments. Despite you claim it’s impossible.
The code to start and stop a stream from a server of a given flavour - UPnP and Qobuz being two different flavours - lives in the firmware of the device acting as the client. Gen 1 devices have the UPnP client code. Gen 2 devices have both the UPnP and the Qobuz client code.
This code is not in the Naim control app, available to everyone but disabled for the older devices.
My sense is that you don’t quite grasp / believe / accept / want that UPnP client code (in the Naim device) cannot communicate directly with a Qobuz server (out in the internet), simply because this same UPnP client code can obviously communicate directly with a UPnP server (living elsewhere in your home intranet). Nevertheless, it can’t. It’s not possible to “initiate a UPnP pull at the [Qobuz] streamer”.
The proxy server / bridge / translation layer / whateveryouwanttocallit required to accomplish this feat lives in the MConnect app or on a Bubble Server or wherever else. It doesn’t live in the Naim app because they didn’t put it there.
Bubble Server is really good and is equal to Roon for SQ and cheap too. It turns your Cloud subscriptions into a local ones and transcodes the stream to WAV as well
I prefer Roon but that’s for other reasons than SQ.
What is your system ? The differences were obvious for me, not night and day but however not subtle to think that I may be a brain bias. The weight and body and bass were clearly more present with the Naim app.
With Mconnect the sound was lighter on his feet, the vocals more ethereal.
That makes sense @alan33, the code is the device. Tidal is available in the Gen 1 Muso because is was built with it. Also UPnP is available for the same reason, built into the device. Qobuz came later and is not available.
And MConnect is doing something else with a proxy to initiate the stream from Qobuz. I’m no networking expert but got it, I think.
Tidal support arrived after the introduction of the Mk1 Muso, and was introduced by firmware update, so that in itself is not the issue. Putting Qobuz in there will never happen. It’s not “disabled”, it runs only on the Mk2 streamers which run completely different firmware. They also run different hardware, and even if Naim went to all the effort of trying to support it on the old platform its reliability would be borderline at best.
Now there are a lot of different views on this from a technical point of view. I don’t understand most of it and don’t really care much about it. What I do care about is this: can I play Qobuz WITHOUT Roon and WITHOUT a box containing a “bridge” and WITHOUT bubble upnp or other software/hacks on a computer?
If I can, how do I do it? I mean explain it to me as if I was a child (soon to turn 50). please
It’s worth noting that native Tidal on legacy streamers is not lossless. Lossless Tidal playback requires a bubble soft upnp solution as well. Another option is to install bubble soft on a Raspberry Pi and add that to your network. Much less expensive than a QNAP, Synology, etc.
The legacy streamers (NDX, Muso 1, etc), will play 16/44 flac from Tidal. Some believe transcoding the flac Tidal stream to WAV using a BubbleUpnp server as a proxy sounds better. That’s another story but not necessary. The native Tidal flac stream is lossless.
I wasn’t aware of that and wouldn’t have known by listening to it. I’m glad I used the transcoding option when I was using Tidal. Though Qobuz lossless transcoded to wav sounds even better.
Yes. That’s exactly what @rossd is using the MConnect app on his iPhone to accomplish:
Google Quobuz UPnP MConnect and the first links are explanation pages from Qobuz on how to do this, including a compatibility table for iOS and Android and the various tiers of MConnect.
@Lucifer, I’m using MConnect to play higher resolution Qobuz audio on the Muso 1 so this thread was focused on that.
My partner however has no interest in higher resolution so plays Quboz to the Muso 1 within the Qobuz app itself via Airplay. This is a simpler solution that may be acceptable to some listeners, as quoted by Qobuz themselves:
The Airplay function on iOS only allows Qobuz to be used in CD quality due to Airplay’s restriction to 16-bit digital audio files at 48 kHz.
You can get to the cast function in Qobuz by tapping the icon bottom left of the play window:
