Qobuz stuttering

Same here… looks like their distributors have been updating some of their catalogues… no issue really easy to update favourites if they have changed. (I have found two so far)
No issue with playout at all via the Qobuz app or by Roon.
Used every day.

I can’t remember the last time I had any issue with Qobuz… it’s just simply always there. To be honest these days with global CDNs actual playout / streaming issues are are unlikely to be server related, but more internet transport route or local ISP based.
Issues if they are to pop up are more likely on navigation / access / API or authentication issues which are more service specific.

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The reason I started the thread was because Qobuz has been so rock solid, so a problem seemed all the more shocking. Since I signed up, I’ve almost stopped downloading as the streamed results have been so good. I assumed that the problem with stuttering and dropouts was local. Luckily that doesn’t seem to be the case, so no remedial work necessary and Qobuz seems to be back to normal, although it has made me think about the wisdom of relying solely on streaming. I may download more of my favourites in future.

yeah - I don’t think there was a general issue with Qobuz streaming per se or everyone would be affected - if stuttering you might have had issue with your ISP or the next tier up on the route to the nominated CDN server that Qobuz gave your application to stream the media from.

Streaming is very reliable - and ultimately more reliable in the long run than local storage subject to your local physical access reliability. If CDNs stopped working then YouTube, FaceBook, Netflix, Amazon etc would all stop working. Sure there are different CDN providers - but this is a wholesale commodity market where such CDN providers are used by many many global organisations.
Sure the internet is a global public service with no overall guaranteed service - and almost inevitably over time service provider X may have a temporary throughput problem with data flows from cloud service provider Y - but it is designed to be inherently reliable.

If you had issues in selecting tracks or login or searching - then that would be more typically illustrative of a Qobuz specific issue.

I hope that doesn’t mean some prior purchases will no longer be available to download as the item has changed in some manner.

Oddly looking at my purchase history I found an album I may have inadvertently purchased twice, which is odd as it tells you in the checkout if you’ve purchased it before - very subtle difference in the name of the album.

It’s been flakey for me in the last few days but I’m away from home playing from Qobuz app to a bluetooth speaker - the local internet connection seems pretty good as no issues steraming on my AppleTV 4k hooked up to the TV where we are, and we’re all using various apps/laptops/idevices on top.

Main issues are tracks stopping prematurely, not starting, or continuing with similar music after you play an album - looks as though they brought in some annoying system to play ‘similar music’ after an album/track ends. Some might like this but it’s on by default.

I think if you purchased items it’s a different situation… worth checking T&Cs.
I know with Apple I have purchased content, that is no longer available to purchase or stream, but I can continue to download with no issue at all.

Still yet to experience any issues with Qobuz navigation or selection/premature ending (though I experienced it once it the other day on Apple Music, but I was mobile)… but I am using usually Roon client… for both Naim and non Naim (for Qobuz)

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I’ve lost the ability to redownload several items from iTunes, from kids TV Shows, the occasional movie, a few albums or isolated album tracks. I’ve likely downloaded it all at some stage in various libraries but it’s a shame you don’t get any watning regarding catalogue changes.

With a few TV shows Apple or the content providers have done odd things such as six series of a show I got the kids are not clearly downloadable, but now appear as Seasons 1-3 with each being comprised of 2 series each.

Hence slight concern with Qobuz as there are certain purchases which are large collections I’ve simply not had the patience to fully download yet!

Strange… I have albums, movies and TV shows all not now purchasable, but everyone I can re download … and appears in my purchase records in the iTunes Store app… even going back many many years to early iTunes. It might be worth contacting Apple.

I don’t download mine at all… I leave in the cloud now… less fuss and ultimately more reliable unless Apple go bust……

However checked Apple T&Cs…

  • Purchased Content will generally remain available for you to download, redownload, or otherwise access from Apple. Though it is unlikely, subsequent to your purchase, Content may be removed from the Services (for instance, because the provider removed it) and become unavailable for further download or access from Apple. To ensure your ability to continue enjoying Content, we encourage you to download all purchased Content to a device in your possession and to back it up.

So if a distributor insists it can be removed completely from Apple… I might have been lucky…. I guess it’s a stark reminder you don’t actually own music or films… you only own the physical media they might reside on in your possession… and the right to access that content from that media. In the UK now legally CDs, DVDs, Blu-ray can’t be backed up or ripped… if damaged or lost you are required to repurchase if still available… I wonder how many actually are law abiding here……

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I’ll check that out. I do love Sibelius.

I spoke to them several years ago when a few things started disappearing, maybe a couple of tracks from an album or even whole albums, and the T&Cs you mention above are what they directed me to. Many were from older .m4p album purchases DRM’s at 128 kbps AAC.

The odd one however is when things are changed in a subtle manner, almost like changing a catalogue number or SKU code - you may or may not be lucky to still be able to redownload but what you actually purchased before no longer technically exists so instead of play/download options I see a price for purchase.

I think what annoyed me in the past was mostly kids TV Shows - you might buy a few episodes to test the water - individual episodes tended to be more expensive than buying a series. If you liked the show however a great feature was ‘Complete my Season’ whereby you could buy the rest of the series for the full series cost minus what you’d already paid to date for any individual episodes which was very good. If however the TV show somehow subtly changed you could no longer do this and could only purchase at full season/series price. Got caught a few times by that.

I bought several old classic Dr Who stories (rose tinted nostalgia) and I’m constantly surprised that I get offered ‘Comlete my Season’ when I already have all episodes for a particular story.

I’m sure it all makes sense behind the scenes!

The only thing I do wish is that if a content provider decides to remove an item from the store completely that Apple would then notify you so that you could download maybe with a grace perido of 3-4 weeks prior to item removal.

In practice issues affect only a tiny percentage and the faff of downloading, backing up is probably no longer worth the time or hassle.

Another oddity is how file sizes of downloads continually change - have often downloaded to different libraries in the past and file sizes differ. Maybe re-encoding, correction of reported encoding glitches or changes to audio content. Only just tried ‘Music’ and ‘Apple TV’in macOS and interesting to see new options including ability not to download surround audio tracks as in the past you got all available audio streams by default.

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Yep… I think that is where I am with it all.

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Interestingly (for me anyway) I took out the Pheonix Net switch and reverted to my array of 2x Etheregens and the problem went away. More wires, 2 switches so was not expecting that… I’ll try again later and see if its still the same.

There are a hundred switches and whatnot between the data source and the streamer. A probably working home switch and cables do not make anything stutter, whether one or two or five. Maybe one of the cables or the Phoenix Net was wonky

There can be the issue of TCP Round Trip Delay latency (nothing to do with buffering a music track is stated above in the thread)
There is a relationship between transport latency Round Trip Delay, end to end bandwidth and host TCP segment memory size that determines the actual application data throughput (note NOT just network access speed as much consumer marketing would like you to believe)
In short the old streamers had limited memory and TCP protocol machine performance and so were susceptible to stutter and dropouts with cloud streaming due to to end to end latency or Round Trip Delay… this could change even by replacing home network equipment if on the edge. Your final mile ISP access will typically be the path whete there is a latency squeeze, especially if other users or applications are sharing your access… which is highly likely.

The current streamers have a completely differently architected network stack in Stream Unlimited’s NP800 streaming module and ate hugely improved and have more data memory to play with.

Hi Chris… The servers Qobuz use to provide their service … which you can ping and trace route are quite different to the CDN companies and their infrastructure Qobuz use to stream media.

Underneath the covers the Qobuz (and Tidal etc) service queues up media to be played. and then tells the host (Ie Naim streamer) the CDN address and media identifier to fetch the media content from. This won’t be a Qobuz server.
It is these CDNs servers that are responsible for the actual streaming.
To identify these you would need advanced host logging or need to do a network trace using WireShark or similar to identify them. It is the path between these and the host that is important (not the path to Qobuz, Tidal, etc)
The CDNs themselves are dynamic and typically will change as global or regional loading for many global customers of CDNs changes over a period of time. Once a track is playing from a CDN it continues to completion I seem to remember.

Yeah there are always possible edge cases but Steve does not have an old streamer and his change from one to two switches should not have made any difference if everything worked. One is fine and two are as well

They where on the day it went down as they had a big outage world wide. It wasnt for long but there service stopped being able to stream or search for music. Their own app would not work, nor Roon or any other service that includes it. This was not local as it was reported from all over europe and beyond by many users Thankfully they soretd it out very quickly.

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Yes probably their own application services that manage their service, authenticating, web services, indexing, media search etc - as opposed to streaming - as unlikely to be CDNs otherwise that might have made wider news as almost certainly companies would be affected.

Fortunately I appear not to have been affected - unless it was for a very short period of time I was not actually using Qobuz for enabling a stream etc

Likely you were not using at the time no way you would have avoided it. Qobuz use Akamai I believe and they had issues last year which affected the service for a while to.

Ok… so Qobuz is back to playing up! I think I was a bit hasty possibly. Evenings are worse.

More specifically it delays a long time before playing a track and then often skips the first track and starts on the second one. When I click back to the first one it plays quickly. There is a long gap between tracks which is especially annoying when its a live show. 50% of the time it also skips a song here as well. Sometimes when selecting a specific track it will just choose another one from the album and after multiple presses and it selecting different tracks a few times I might get what I wanted.

I compared the SQ between streaming from Qobuz and locally streaming the same recording (purchased from Qobuz) and the difference is noticeable. High notes are far harsher on the Qobuz stream, the sound is thinner and less life like. More digital possibly. Voices, clapping and some instruments sound better streamed locally. I tried about 10 tracks and found in every instance I preferred the local by quite a margin. I actually bought most of the music I have been streaming recently (not loads!) and having listened today to some I am happy to have bought them! Not least for the lack of problems when served from my house vs Qobuz!

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