Qutest, Hugo TT2, Mscaler

When deciding BNC vs USB it comes down to two questions (for me). What data rate do I need and what digital outputs does my streamer have (or intended one if I’ll be upgrading)

If you want 384-768 or more, then USB is probably going to be your choice. Although dual BNC will give you 768 but you’ll need extra gear to do it when not using an MScaler that is.

If you are happy maxing out at 384… which does sound superb. A lot of HQP filters use a 1m+ taps at 384 or less (as does PGGB I think)… it comes down to what connections your streamer has. At that point it’s just a case of picking the cable that has the right tonal balance for your ears, system and room.

One perk I found with USB, it’s easier to make use of it in your mobile setup when you’re on holiday etc. If I’d gone BNC for instance, I’d still need a good USB for those occasions. So, I just combined the funds for buying 2 cables into one… at least that’s what I tell myself :rofl:

Yes I have played around with usb audio… for good SQ (apparent least coupling artefacts) then USB 3 is the way to go… in a way that works more like Ethernet… and stays fully balanced (in the twisted pairs)

However for lowest coupling artefacts for me it is still SPDIF or dual SPDIF for me.

@Simon-in-Suffolk Hi Simon, are you using a power supply with your NDX2 into DAVE or just a ‘bare’ NDX2.
I have just started my own evaluation of the DAVE & Etude with my NDX2 & PS555DR, and wondered what direction you and others have taken, and the reasoning.
Stuart

When I added the Dave to my NDX2, I had the PS555 already connected to it. After a couple of months, I disconnected the PS555, and to my ears this had zero effect. I then disconnected Dave and confirmed that PS555 brings a big improvement indeed on NDX2 alone, without Dave being connected. It kind of make sense as I imagine the PS555 improves mainly the analogue section of NDX2. So, in my system, with Dave in the chain PS555 was redundant…

There’s no way I’m going to shell out thousands for a PSU upgrade on my NDX2 (plus another shelf, and another cable dressing quandry). If I was being sensible I’d have just bought an ND5XS2 which has no PSU upgrade option as it sounded the same as an NDX2 to me when used as an SPDIF source.

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Simon there are quite a few guys with Dave’s that keep talking about bypassing the USB input, because of the Amanero chip used for it somehow degrades the sound. Any thoughts on this, I have no idea what this is personally?

Would members please respect forum rules - specifically with regard to referencing and importing specific discussions from other forums. thank you.

HI Tony, I was told some time ago by a K50 owner that he preferred the BNC output from his K50 when connecting to the Mscaler rather than USB.

Despite this I had persisted with USB from my K50 and also from my Innuos when connecting to the Mscaler. Recently I had started to see Taiko Extreme owners posting that the Extreme designer had been saying that the Amanero chip in the Dave usb controller is relatively high latency and is not favoured for that reason. Some of these guys were having success using the SRC-DX usb to bnc convertor in order to use the Dave low latency bnc inputs instead of USB.

Having now tried this myself it was something of a revelation to find that I really liked the BNC input to the Mscaler and also for connecting direct to Dave (they apparently both use the Amanero chip in the USB input as does the Qutest etc).

This was with 44, 48, 88 and 192 files using a single BNC and also with PGGB processed 705 and 768kHz files converted to dual bnc from USB using the SRC-DX device.

I now use the SRC-DX to convert USB to BNC to connect to my Qutest as well as with the Mscaler/Dave and this has upped the Qutest sound in that system quite a bit.

At the moment this is only using a single BNC cable but I intend to start using the dual BNC output from the SRC-DX so I can play PGGB 705 and 768 files on the Qutest using the new Innuos 2.0 app on a Zen Mini.

I do not use HQPlayer but I am told by those that do that many of them are now converting the HQPlayer usb output to dual bnc using the SRC-SX.

Do I recall correctly that AudioWise are not too far from you?

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Woke up one morning and decided the performance from the MScaler / Qutest ticks all the boxes so the TT2 is on the back burner for now…

Just having a listen to the Fink album you posted via Qobuz sounds excellent.

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I use the NDX2 with its optimum inbuilt power supply, which switches to standby cutting down the bills…

I choose the NDX2 → DAVE → Etude → ATCs for sq… it provides the sort of performance that is absolutely spot on for me, my family… and even friends appreciate it…

I think the DAVE and Etude work so wonderfully together… which I guess is what you expect… just like the nd555 and the 552…

Oh yes I feed the NDX2 into a HMS then DAVE… very much diminishing returns, but hard to roll back from once you got used to it… I find with acoustic and 70s/60s recording the HMS really does wonders in giving that sense of being there or removing any feel of sonic obfuscation. I suspect very many recent mix masters are less influenced due to the degree of digital processing when creating the mix master.

Listening now to Through the Past, Darkly by the Rolling Stones and it feels so engaging and organic … it’s superb.

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No sorry … no views on that one… I guess because I am not focussed on usb for my Hi-Fi…I don’t tend to go too off piste with it.

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Hi HiFiman,

M-Scaler/Qutest vs TT2
For me there is no easy winner here. Each has its strengths and depending on what you value …as well as your system / room etc, you may well make a different decision from mine.

You owe it to yourself at this price point to listen to them in your own system.

IF I was pinned to a wall and a decision was demanded, then with these caveats:

That the TT2 is an end point, not a stepping stone;
If your system is like mine;
If, like me, you value the human voice above other characteristics;

THEN, as the voice is a TAD better through the TT2, then this is what I would pick.

BUT, you will be giving up:

Better sound staging;
A fraction more resolution;
More informative, more lithe bass.

<Update: 08/07/21>
Over the last couple of weeks I have listened to a WIIIIDE range of music. Overall I would give the edge to the Qutest/MScaler (QM).
There is a LOT of music that has less than stellar recording quality, a lot of which I love. The QM handles this better.

As it happens I have the MScaler/Qutest, and I am perfectly happy as is.

Whichever way you go you will be well served.

M

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Yes Nick, he is about a 3 hour drive away.

Sorry Richard, I did not realize you can not even mention other forums, I thought it was just not providing a link to another forum. Time to read the rules again.:pensive:

Thanks M. Interesting comments, so if I read the above correctly the Qutest has better sound staging etc

He did caveat that with, “In his system”. You do really need to demo it yourself to be sure.

For instance, when I had a Naim system, the mids were less detailed compared to that in a Chord system. With Naim amps, I found the Qutest really good as it added detail to the mids and even though the Qutest wasn’t as warm as the the TT2, it didn’t need it.

I personally found a very respectful improvement in terms of soundstage, especially depth and height, as well as bass depth and texture. I now use Chord amps and the soundstage with them is superb, as many others would testify.

But, as @MrUnderhill said, it really comes down to individual systems, ears and room… especially the room. Treating a rooms first point reflections will make a far bigger difference than most black box upgrades. It really does tighten up soundstage and imaging as well as bass etc. When I sorted out my room I was very surprised at how much different it made. For very little £ as well.

If you intend to by a DAC, especially at that level, I would really recommend demoing it first. As I mentioned previously… there is no gurantee you’ll prefer the changes in your system.

My gut feeling is the Qutest will provide great balance in your current system. Just wait until you can demo a TT2 at leisure first… don’t rush in. I’m in the same position as you but in terms of the Dave. I really like the TT2 and I’m in no hurry to try the Dave. I will eventually but for now, I will enjoy what I have.

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Over the last two full days of trialling the NDX2 with DAVE with three different power options (bare, XPS-DR, 555DR) on the NDX2, I have found that my XPS-DR provides a small discernible improvement over ‘bare’ direct power particularly noticeable with headphones (Focal Elear). The 555DR, in this context, provides minimal improvement over the XPS-DR. So if I go ahead with the DAVE purchase I can trade the 555DR and keep the XPS-DR, which I wasn’t expecting.

This is a different outcome to using the NDX2’s internal DAC where the 555DR provides a real step up, as recorded many times on this forum.

The source files are either redbook WAV (mainly CD rips with Melco D100), & hi-res (92kHz and 192kHz), on Melco, and streams from Qobuz, using the Naim app. ENO filter between Melco N100 player port and NDX2. I am not using MScaler. Naim Powerlines on NDX2 and PS’s.

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Today I took out my new Kef LS 50 Metas and put my Peak Consult Incognitos back in place. This was the first time I have listened to my PGGB music with the big full range speakers. I am sold on this tech, it seems like I can turn it way up without any distortion at all. The only limit is my building manager now.
After watching the great football match, I have decided to do a complete Fraim rebuild for the remainder of the weekend. I might try to get some more physical separation between the Mscaler and TT2. Also, I will be putting my Nagra integrated on the top shelf of the Fraim…hoping for some slight improvement.

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And possibly the love for your hearing…

What separation do you have now… I have found as long as you don’t have the HMS very close (say less than 10 cms) to anything else it is fine.
I try and keep its PSU and route its cable away from the DAC/preamp… but no more so than most digital cabling like Ethernet etc.

What I did find the HMS took many months to come on song… whether it was because my model was just at the edge of spec somewhere and certain components needed to settle in … I don’t know. I had it powered up, but out of circuit for a couple of months, and discovered this by accident when I reconnected… but whatever the reason it’s cooking on gas now.

Controversially I have found the included BNC phono leads better with DAVE than anything else I have including my WAVE Storm leads. (Once all settled in). With the TT2 I was less convinced and used the WAVE leads… but the TT2 was a demo device on long term lock down evaluation from my dealer and so an older build and possibly older phono leads.