Qutest, Hugo TT2, Mscaler

Hi Toon,

I am very happy for you.

What is that sudden drop in sound quality?? Oh, my nashing teeth :smiley:

As I said to Alastair, I am very happy as is, getting more and more out of the Qutest and getting it under my skin BEFORE I introduce another change.

Look forward to your report.

Warning… waffle alert!

When I got the TT2 I wasn’t even thinking of using it to power my speakers direct… it was going to be my end point when combined with the SN2 etc. However, since hearing it with only the Aries G1 I’ve been amazed how good it sounds without the amp. I’m lucky in that it is in a small room and near field listening. I’ve found that I mainly have the volume set to -15db to -20db so have plenty of power spare.

So, given this I will end up selling the SN2, HiCap and HiLine which should cover the m scaler. If, in the future, I want to use it in a larger room and need more power, I’ll add something like a 250DR.

What I find remarkable about my experiences so far with Chord DACs is their ability to make something sound so real and place you amongst it. Detail on its own doesn’t do it, it’s how they present it.

If I was to take a landscape photograph with a high resolution camera at midday, it would have tons of detail but it would seem flat, uninteresting. If I take one early or late in the day, shadows would be long and they would bring out the shape and texture of the valleys giving shape and a sense of depth to the image. Use shallow focus and the subjects position with the landscape becomes clear and easy to see. Images become engaging and real… it’s like you’ve been taken there.

Somehow, Chord have done this with audio… how? not sure in all honesty but it’s very evident with the Qutest, the TT2 and I’d imagine the Hugo 2 & especially Dave. The effect just seems to get bigger as you work your way up but the character is very similar.

The detail (not midday detail) has lovely texture. The leading edges of notes have real clarity to them and the way they decay feels very natural and fleshed out… no abrupt ending. It feels real. The soundstage and imaging is so precise and makes it easy to place the musician in the scene, just like an image with shallow focus can help position the subject within the landscape.

For me, the combination of all this, the real sense of depth brings the music to life… in someway it helps connect you to the performance as you’re sat amongst it and not just facing a pair of speakers with sound coming out of them.

The Qutest started this journey for me, it was a real eye opener… packs a massive hit in such a small box that’s easy to add to any system. The TT2 just takes what it does so well and makes it bigger with extra detail etc… and lets you power speakers as well.

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Nice analogy Toonartist, I just bought my first 4k television (65 inch LG C9), and it is a similar experience to what you are hearing, but in this case seeing. I can see clearly now what is really there, that was being masked by my inferior 1080P Plasma.

I would love a TV that size but the better half wouldn’t be up for that :pensive:

But yes, large TV = sensory overload (good way). Combine that with great sound and it becomes a very immersive feeling… makes you feel like you are there! Or, a VR headset!

+1000!

Hugo made music so much more real, but Dave was just “Wow!” real. Removing need for preamp, running direct to power amp added to that. MScaler remains a ? - an unwanted niggling temptation of a question…

Part of me thinks if only Dave had TT2’s output power, but I doubt it would be enough for my speakers and occasional high level blast. And anyway that is an amp, albeit inbuilt: the question is really whether whatever modest power output power amp design is used in TT2 is better than whatever external power amp. Is it based on other Chord power amps or some novel approach, i.e is it better than them or much the same? Is it better than Bryston (in my case) or much the same?

Rob said it is the same technology he is designing his new digital amps with, the ones that will plug in the unused DX outputs on the TT2 and Dave. He figured why not throw some of his newly designed tech into the TT2 when designing it, and it works great. The digital amps will eventually be much more powerful though.

A demo would be able to say for sure, but like you, I would be very reluctant to give up Dave and all the benefits it offers. Rob Watts said that the TT2 closed the gap but there was still a good sized gap remaining to make it a significant step up.

People have been talking about whether a Dave 2 will add a M Scaler built in, I doubt it will as it might add noise, but I could quite easily imagine they’d do something similar to the TT2. Maybe a bit more powerful… but not too much. Then it would be a case of adding a top-up power amp if only a little more power is needed or, a bigger integrated, pre/power option.

What I’ve noticed with powering the speakers directly… after testing out tracks that had extreme lows and highs, is that they remain largely unchanged. It’s the mids that are lifted and become clearer.

There’s a track by Chris Jones on Roadhouses and Automobiles called “Thank you (R.J. Reynolds)”. A great track but it has a,“Ting” that is repeated throughout the track… very close to being annoyingly high. Feeding speakers direct, it’s no worse… in fact, it’s slightly less harsh.

A track from Club For Five, a cover of Brothers in Arms on You’re The Voice. The guys voice is really low… impressively so. Again, feeding the speakers direct the same power is there but as with other tracks, the mids are much clearer.

As it stands, I think even if I didn’t like the M Scaler (It has a 30 day return), the SN2 etc will still be sold as I’ve been enjoying the system so much in it’s most basic form. This in some ways is a bit sad as I love Naim and what they do… a fantastic brand. Maybe I’ll have to get a Muso at some point for my studio or the living room?!?

I will be tempted to listen to the TT2 further down the road, but I know people who prefer the Qutest to the TT2 so I don’t view it as a slam dunk. The good thing here is that you have had the opportunity to listen to both in your system.

In my system I need to have a pre-amp, or a DAC with an analogue input; which is why ten years or so ago I bought Bel Canto 3.5vb. This proved to very much be a sideways distraction, but I loved the idea of removing the pre-amp from the chain, something that quickly proved to be wrong.

M

Certainly horses for courses. As well as how good it sounds, what I really like about the Qutest is that it’s so small it can be added to any system, small spaces etc. If I had the space for speakers either side of the TV, I’d use it downstairs.

The last time I went through a sequence of upgrades was about 4 years ago. After this one, it will most likely be another 4-5 years before I change anything. I try to change everything at once so it’s what I want and then leave it. If the M Scaler doesn’t do it for me, I’d be perfectly happy to return it knowing where I am now is about perfect for me.

How’s that power supply coming on… still seeing improvements?

Hi Toon,

For one reason or another I have done a major remodelling over the last eighteen months, and my system is all the better for it. Like you I am thinking that once the Chords are in place I will take a couple of years off!

I am VERY happy with what the Ultra is doing for the SBooster, and therefore the Qutest. I am thinking about an SBooster for the M-Scaler, although the Ultra is NOT on the approval list so cannot be used. With the M-Scaler I will spend a few weeks listening with the supplied PSU first. I am just researching cables for connecting the Qutest and M-Scaler.

One thing I see that is frequently mentioned in comparisons between the TT2 and the Qutest is the former’s warmth. In the case of the person I cited above he preferred the somewhat cooler presentation of the Qutest. Of course this comes down to personal preference and system/room interaction. I have seen FAR more people praising the TT2 over the Qutest.

Thinking about how good I think the Qutest is got me thinking about high value components. Certainly my experience would also include the Meridian 210 and the Townshend Allegri. All three components I just think of as excellent, and to repeat myself, I think Chord have played things with a remarkably straight bat in producing something as good and as transparent as the Qutest. Unfortuneately I think I have reached the end of the tweaks I have to hand and so am reduced to simply sitting and listening to it!

Got to say that I find your use of the TT2 as an amp really interesting, as recommended by @Innocent_Bystander, but not something that I can practically live with long term; but, something I will play with when I get one through the door.

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I find it quite remarkable that it’s only £1195 new. I really can’t imagine many, if any, DACs under £2k or more beating it.

At the moment, I’m using the stock power supply with the TT2 but with the iFi DC ipurifier 2 attached. I’m going to give it a another couple of days or so and try the power supply without it to see if there’s a difference. Surprised it was left in the box with the TT2 to be honest… £99 to buy. Sounding great at the moment but time will tell if that has anything to do with it… or if it’s plugin snake oil!

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another update on my demo journey
had the DAVE hooked up now few a couple of days (started with it being fed into my NAC282) and done a A/B vs my existing setup

inital impression DAVE solo i found was much more noticeable uplift on existing set-up than the TT2/Mscaler combo , would describe as a more open airy sound/soundstage, more detail, really good natural voice/instrument sound, most noticeable is how much better the bass/bass-control is

i fear for my wallet… :slight_smile:

will also try in pre-amp mode feeding the NAC282 as suggested and feeding the NAP250 direct again

may first add MScaler to the party and take out again before doing above as realistically if went this way would be solo DAVE for a year or so before adding an MSscaler to the mix

I home demo’d the Dave for a week, back when I still had the 272/XPSDR/250DR and thought it was really good (DAC mode). I used it fed from my Core (BNC) connection into an analog input on my 272. Wanting to try all possible connections while I had it, I tried using it as a preamp/DAC directly into my home theatre amp (Anthem). It was this that convinced me that I could have just as good, or better sound by eliminating the 272/XPS, and using a Chord DAC directly into an amp.
The problem was the 250DR connection, I did not have the proper cable to try it. Another problem was the price of Dave, I simply could not afford one all at once. That started me thinking about doing it in steps, so the TT2 first, then the Mscaler. Gradually I started trading gear in to get where I wanted to be, I am now there.
Dave is expensive, but if you can afford one, they are hard to beat. At this point I am going to sit back and enjoy what I have, and see what emerges from Chord in the next few years.

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I have improved the ‘standard’ roon Core output from the Zen Mini III by applying DSP settings in roon for sample rate conversion to my main 3 endpoints when playing out using RAAT.

I have used DSP on Intel i5 and i7 roon Core platforms before, but I had not expected the Zen Mini III to support DSP as it has a lesser Intel processor & board than the NUC/Nucleus+.

By upsampling (sample rate conversion-> Max PCM rate (power of2) and conversion filter -> smooth, minimum phase) within roon, and rebooting all devices, with almost continuous playback, there is a ‘closing of the SQ gap’ to UPNP mode, especially for the Allo DigiOne Sig running MoOde, running into my TT2.

Also, I remembered that all 3 of my main endpoints can receive Airplay streams, which is a nice alternative option for casual listening. The Atom in particular seems rather ‘attuned’ to AirPlay - reflecting it’s flexibility and ‘fun factor’.

I am ignoring the MScaler, and the Meridian 210, upgraditis on this thread :unicorn:I may try the power bank that @anon23154165 is using with his TT2.

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@T-elmi hold fire on the power bank. I’ve been using the power supply and it’s been sounding spot on. It does have the iFi DC iPurifier 2 attached though.

What I intend to do, after a week or so letting everything settle down, is to compare power supply on its own, then with the iFi DC iPurifier 2 and finally with the DC power bank. Might even use the purifier thing with the power bank as well.

But, until the system settles down, it will be too hard to say what impact each is having on the system!

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Nice summary :smile:

Forgot to add my comments were in relation to hi res content I do feel the tt2/mscaler combo with cd rips was truly impressive difficult to tell how that rates with the dave as sounds different presentation

DAVE would be a push for myself but I feel maybe worth getting to an end point source then mscaler some time down the line, as opposed to me hopping on/off the upgrade train source wise again, bit more pondering to do and will all depend on trade in/dave price offered by dealer

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that good to hear and know Simon in Suffolk mentioned this, will also have to give that a try (can you also do this in experimental roon mode? Couldn’t see why not unless i am missing something…)

My thinking is the opposite of yours, the Dave is much older than the Mscaler. So I think the Mscaler will be around long term, but the Dave could be updated before long. I could trade/sell the TT2 for the Dave 2, if affordable.

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That was concern I had too been looking at head-fi an can jam q&a reports with RWatts all consistently said would be 2 odd years down the line for any potential dave 2 (likely bringing the processor in line with the other chord products as have moved on from the spartan chip, doesn’t hint anything else though just speculates) I guess my thoughts were tt2/mScaler didn’t justify cost for gain on hires but dave does make difference for same cost then could upgrade dave down the line again with mscaler for that wonderful cd rip playback sound. Decisions… decisions… :smile:

Interesting. I’m playing with Roon upsampling right now. I’ll try your settings tonight. Not sure I can tell the difference between Smooth, min phase and precise, min phase. I don’t have a Chord product, but if I did I wouldn’t do any upsampling via software.