Qutest, Hugo TT2, Mscaler

At the moment, my system is Aries G1 (Optical) - HMS (Dual BNC) + Power Bank - TT2 (XLR) - Speakers.

My final tweaks to the system to minimise noise were to use isolation pucks under the TT2 & HMS and add the power bank to the HMS.

Mind, I still need to do something I guess with that flaky cable that’s prone to crackling… seems to start happening after its been on an hour or so… moving, turn the cable at the moment gets rid of it.

Edit. Forgot to add. Power is Chord Shawline cable into a Wireworld Matrix 2 plus a Wireworld Stratus 7 to the Aries G1.

That is something I would focus on eliminating as it is clearly causing marginal issues which won’t be helping especially if a weak contact that might be possibly conducting in a non linear way at high frequencies causing horrible low level intermodulation distortions.

Yeah… I’ve order a pair of 1.5m BNC cables… not exotic, Wireworld Starlight 8. I’ve got 10 days to wait because I wanted 1.5m :roll_eyes: never mind. It makes it easier to keep the HMS a couple of shelves below the other gear.

Hi Simon,
Whatever the relevant theories may suggest, I have found considerable benefit in attaching a fist full of the correct Wurth Electronik clip-on ferrites to the standard M Scaler to DAVE BNC cables.

Next step is to audition a couple of different Wave High Fidelity BNC cables in the coming weeks. If either pair works, then great. If not, then at least I’ve tried them.

I have also had several conversations with people who should know about the merits of battery power supplies for the M Scaler. On the one hand, the isolated battery supplies (e.g. Poweradd Pro2 or equivalent) do indeed break any power supply ground loops but there is more to it. They may also generate lesser noise related issues of their own due to their internal BMS control. So they help overall but may not be a 100% ideal solution, even if you don’t mind swapping & recharging the batteries. This may be why the designer only uses a battery pack when travelling, preferring to stay with Wave cables at home.

Best regards, BF

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Yeah… I’m measuring use on this 25000mha battery and so far it seems to be about 1hr for each 10% usage. Recharge is about 2.5 a 3hrs. If this holds out, then I’ll stick with this size… if it comes in less I’ll go for the 50000mah for an extra £30… I may do anyway to be honest.

I’m certainly noticing a very nice improvement with it.

As it stands… it’s an easy full day with quick recharge ready for the next day.

Yeah it’s not so much theoretical, but applied practice and basic electronic design, but will vary of course from environment to environment.
I have had sets ups that have been quite sensitive to ferrite chokes in the past … but not currently.
I have many of all shapes and sizes from my radio work. But your grounding arrangements will affect the benefits to some extent… so always good to have several to hand for when and if you need them. Luckily they cost peanuts so easy to apply if needed in your environment.
I do use on my Ethernet lead currently on my streamer, and between Naim streamer and M Scaler.

The main thing with the 75 ohm coax is to use good quality 75 ohm coax RG based cables with 75 ohm BNC… the good thing, is that quality radio frequency grade RG cable with BNC costs only a few pounds… but get from a quality electronic component reseller as opposed to ‘audiophile’ reseller. You will pay a huge premium for the latter. They are also relatively cheap and easy to make yourself and roll your own if you have soldering competency, and you can get to the exact right length and choose conductor and shield metals to suit taste… sure you might need a SWR meter to check optimum impedance.

When I first set up my TT2/Mscaler I had them both plugged into my MCRU 4-way. I’m using Wave cables but there was still some high end grain. When I took the Mscaler out of the chain, the grain went but I lost the all the other benefits. I daisy chained a RA X2 with Kimber cord off the MCRU and plugged the Chords into the X2. It was better but still not where I wanted it to be. So I tried plugging the TT2 directly in to the X2 and the Mscaler into the MCRU. This made a marked improvement and now the sound is smooth and detailed with the space and airiness of the Mscaler intact. Bass has tightened up too.

I’ve made some assumptions that may be incorrect, but separating the two power supplies improved things no end, as if using the X2 has blocked or significantly reduced the stray RF from reaching the DAC. If that isn’t what’s happening, then some other effect is taking place. Anyway, might be worth trying some separation of the two supplies and see what happens.

I am curious of this ‘high end grain’
I think this weekend if I have the opportunity I will try and see if I can force the units to create some grain… because either by sample variation or my environment there is no added artefact I can hear or notice at all… and normally I am very sensitive with grain/distortion as it adds low level artificial sibilance amongst other things especially in choral music, which I love, which is ultra sensitive to grain artefacts… and over the years it has something I have often noticed detrimentally on some Hi-Fi components including tweeter drivers even when driven with Statement amplification,

Removing the HMS oversampling into the TT2 I find varies from recording to recording but typically affects presence and feel of the resultant audio as well as insight feel. In short non HMS sounds flatter/shallower into the TT2. (Now if the recording is very poor, the HMS seems to add very little)

Going back to the earlier forum, I remember commenting in my opinion this was one noticeable improvement between NDS/555PS and the NDAC/555PS… where the former had better grain performance.

Fortunately I am not plagued with grain at all now… it was an area that really put me off Hi-Fi a few years ago.

I think some on Head Fi have describe the additional noise that comes from the HMS as a slight halo effect in the mids/highs. The best way I can describe the change from moving from using the power supply with the HMS to a power bank is a tightening of the notes and details… a little less glare.

During quiet spells, or if no sound is playing I get a strange sensation of as if my ears are being pulled in towards the system (strange I know). It’s similar to when a background white noise suddenly stops and you hear absolutely nothing for the first time in a while.

I similar thing happened when I used battery on the Qutest… but not when I used the first couple of power banks on the HMS. I can only think some power banks are not as noise free as others.

I tend to listen to a lot of stringed music and the effect seems to be very obvious with that, the start point of each note becomes really clear, very focused and the decay goes for longer. A bit more fluid. The feeling in general is that it’s a bit more relaxed.

As you say, the issue itself (although very minor one), could be very system dependant. One tweak may well work better than the other depending on how your system is setup. For instance, I’m feeding directly from the XLR into speakers with no other pre or power amp. I don’t have a set of headphones at this point to be able to comment on any differences there. Also, that BNC cable isn’t probably helping.

The good thing is, a power bank is relatively cheap mod when compared to Wave cables / OPTO DX and myself system is in my office with easy access so I have no issues disconnecting the battery at the end of the day to recharge it.

Hi Simon,

Interesting topic this “grainy sound”. Is that related to noise and or distortion generated by the DAC itself or is it a consequence of common noise reaching the DAC?

We have that in common, this is the one thing that I wasn’t totally satisfied with the Naim DAC, even after adding the 555PS DR.

The ND555 does a much better job, especially with 2 PSs.

As for the tweeter, I couldn’t agree more. The best part of my current speakers is the tweeter. It sounds marvellous, especially with boys choirs (e.g. Allegri’s Miserere).

When choosing speakers, many tend to focus on the low end when the tweeter is so important…

Here’s an interesting review of the OPTO DX. It has a section based on “Background of Digital Hygiene” and impact of power supply options with M Scale / DAC setups.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/audiowise-opto•dx-optical-isolation-bridge-for-dual-spdif.23757/reviews

While I like the sound of the OPTO DX system, I don’t really want the extra boxes or, heavier cables off the back of the DAC etc… so, the powering info / options I found interesting as a way if improving on what is already a terrific Scaler / DAC combo.

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Ray-dude is the most thorough guy on the head-fi forums, I really enjoy all his reviews of equipment pertaining to Chord Dac’s. The Opto -DX completely isolates the Dac from Mscaler, which is what we want in the end. What I like about it, is you can also choose very long cables to physically distance the two components from each other, even put them in seperate rooms.

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Between Wave and Opto DX, I would go with Opto.

That said, I just want to complete my upgrade based on a compact system that will be able to go with me when I’ve sorted out headphones. Just the BNC replacements and headphones left. I’ve got a good camera bag that I’ll be able to use to take it with me when I go on holiday (minus the Aries or course).

Once this is perfected, then I may add the Opto but it’s not a must have as the system is sounding incredible as it is. It’s the most transparent energy packed system I’ve had… I’d rather upgrade the Single Malt collection for winter night listening sessions!

I am assuming it’s high frequency stray electric fields coupling into the analogue leads possibly causing intermodulation distortion. Inter mod distortion can cause grain.

Interestingly on the TT2 and DAVE DAC with DSD and hidef PCM that can be issues with high frequency intermodulation either encoded within hidef or on the DSD decode, and the TT2 offers filter settings 1 and 3 to remove this encoded noise if embedded in the source material.(DAVE just offers one setting, on or off)

I was very close to buying a Dave … and was going to use it directly into my 500… Then I heard the Dave into a 300 at the Bristol HiFi Show…in 2018…it sounded lifeless and un engaging I was so disappointed…The strange thing is … it drives headphones superbly…and I have heard it on other amps sounding great…strange…

Me too… I went off it for years as I never enjoyed listening to music anymore. A Nova got me interested again, but I still had to make significant upgrades to get to a level where I am totally relaxed and not tensing when I expect something shrill or harsh. My current set up achieves this very well indeed and listening to music is a joy again.

When I tried the with/without Mscaler, I focussed on just the smoothness and tried to ignore all the other elements that the Mscaler brings. Once I realised that the TT2 alone, with the Mscaler turned off and disconnected, sounded smoother, I knew there was another issue I had to resolve. All the signs were RFI and separating the power supplies did the trick for me although I already had Wave cables.

I’m tempted to try a battery but will keep that for the point in the future, for it will surely come, when I say “Mmmm, that’s not sounding good enough”.

Same here, I find Naim power amps not being driven by Naim NACs sound un engaging and to my ears… not right.
In my experience I have never successfully split a Naim amp from a Naim NAC.

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It is very strange there must be a parameter that effects the sound to sort of squash dynamics…not readily apparent…

Indeed in my youth… prior to my voice breaking I was a church chorister … now I will readily admit our parish church choir was absolutely nowhere near the standard of our diocese cathedral choir… but I did develop a taste and an ear for chorister music.

Had good results with Townshend Allegri & EAR pre-amps.

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