Can’t be long before You your Ultima 6 turns up from Chord now!
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I spent a couple of long sessions in my dealers demo room, trying to hear a difference between NDX2 and ND5XS2 via SPDIF out. I took my Dave with me, as he’s not a Chord dealer. I tried really hard to convince myself that there was a difference, but any I thought I might have heard were well within the bounds of potential bias, and I had to conclude that I could not reliably or consistently tell the difference.
I’m quite willing to accept that anyone with a more revealing system or better hearing (not to mention a more liberal approach to expectation bias!) might reach a different conclusion, but that was mine.
Obviously I bought the NDX2 anyway! Not because it sounded better, but I got a very good deal on an open box one, quite liked the screen (albeit flawed in implementation) and it keeps my options open for the future. What I can say is that when I got it home, it was a clear step up in sound quality from my NDX1.
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Fingers crossed, although I’m pretty happy with theirs until it does. One thing I’ve noticed is that with the TT2 in hi gain mode the sq at really low volumes is super. Not something I’m used to with it so low
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I’ve always used HiGain with the TT2… this started when I was feeding it directly into the PMC 25.22 speakers. It sounded more lively, dynamic then and the same holds true now that it’s feeding the Etude via XLR. It does remain very detailed even at low volumes. Very impressive!
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Hi @dayjay, sorry for the side track, do you use Roon ? I’m interested from the Phoenix perspective, thanks
Yes, I use Roon in experimental mode, didnt like it direct though as I felt it lost the sparkle. Experimental is a lovely mix of superb user interface and innuos sound quality
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Sounds like the sort of audition that I need to do in the new year hopefully. I quite like the Naim app and it’s presentation but given my use of a separate DAC, currently the RME fed from my SU, I do wonder, apart from the extra built in services, what the new steamers will offer me?
I which case I may be comparing the SU to the ND5 XS2 or something like the Bluesound Node 2i
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Thanks for the reply, I use Roon in experimental mode also, agree re sound quality. The only slight issue I have is stability and I was reading something that was attributing this to the Innuos USB out, I was wondering if adding the Phoenix has changed this issue ?
Any audible differences between renderers very likely depends on the DAC. One aspect may be how susceptible the DAC is to things like RF: IIUC a significant part of the design of Dave was to minimise the effects of RF, with the consequence that any residual RF from different renderers may not be audible, or audible only to people acutely tuned to hearing the finest of differences.
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Interesting. I have had literally zero issues with stability. I do get the odd glitch with playlists in random play mode but none other than that. That said I bought the Phoenix within a week or two of hearing what the zenith was doing in my system. The phoenix is an absolute no brainer and I’d return the MScaler before that any day; it’s a brilliant device
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I found that the transport has little effect on my TT2 and MScaler. Unlike sorting out clean power supplies for the MScaler and USB cables which did make a big difference.
Before I sold the G1, I’d played around with different cable types with the G1, Roon NUC and MacBook Pro (on battery). Using a USB cable they all sounded more or less the same. The MacBook Pro a little brighter. When I separated the power on the usb cable so that it also came from a power bank, I couldn’t honestly pick out any difference at all.
In the end, I tried a few different USB cables and compared them to the optical output and once I found the combination that closely matched the optical, the G1 was on its way.
Sorting out clean power supplies and cables have made a far bigger difference to the sound quality of the source (MScaler / TT2) than the transport did for me.
That said, the transport does play a part on how you connect, use and play music. As in, buttons, remote, display and digital outs. Those aspects are what I would look at when considering a transport to feed a DAC rather than sound quality.
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But it is none the less affected by residual common mode HF/RF currents… so seems to like choked SPDIF leads… especially with the mscalar. I found the TT2 similar in this regard.
I do find transports do sound slightly different… as I would expect… I have set the NDX2 as the reference point.
Although musical, PRaT, analytical etc are all meaningless words in terms of describing audio replay… I do find the Chord DACs seem really happy with Chord amplification… which seemingly are matched… all I can say the renditions seem to reveal the groove and rhythm such that instinctively one starts to nod or tap when listening… to me a good sign of a well setup system.
I would say Chord amps seem faster or tighter than the Naim amps I have tried with my speakers… it’s hard to describe, but self evident when listening to it.
I notice my Chord amp runs warmer than my NAP 250 for a given volume driving my ATCs… and the Chord amp (Etude) seems to give more punch and low end drive and definition than my NAP250.2 into my SCM19v2 speakers… and this really gels with the Dave… and the Etude case matches the Dave 
I really don’t understand all the hypothetical conjecture that I read on this forum about how DAVE is so well designed that sound quality is immune to what is upstream of it.
Instead of intellectualising and theorising about what should be the case, just have a listen and let your ears tell you. Having read far too much but also listened quite a lot, our experience is that everything matters.
The DCS Network Bridge is tremendous for streaming music to a DAVE and has been consistently better to us than the more expensive Aries G2, good though that is. The Sonore ultraRendu represents amazing value for money but is less capable than the more expensive opticalRendu. Add a Paul Hynes SR4T power supply ( or Sean Jacobs equivalent) to the oR and there is a marked step up in resolution, clarity, imaging and sheer life to music.
Others can comment on where the Naim NDX2 and ND5SX2 fit in this hierarchy, as I have yet to try these as pure streamers.
The M Scaler absolutely brings DAVE on a step or 3 but then the M Scaler to dac BNC cables make a material difference to the relaxed naturalness of the sound, as many have found, whether using Wave High Fidelity cables or just by using the right Wurth Ferrites on the standard cables as I still do.
Having said all this, if you want to keep it simple, a Naim streamer makes a great deal of sense!
Best regards, BF
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Nor do I and in my setup and ears that is definitely not the case… and to be fair it would be miraculous if it was. Dave and mscalar are quite dependent on the digital stream input qualities.
Agree about keep it simple… the new Naim streamers driving a non Naim DAC such as HMS->Dave is reliable, robust and performant and simply works time after time after time.
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Couldn’t agree more on chord amps. I loved 282/250dr combo with two hicaps but with chord feeding the chord amp it betters it in every way for less money and the foot tapping really does happen. Has really made me rethink things in terms of hifi
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Very true, the Chord Amps are amazing! But also, think about the number of boxes.
I’ve been fortunate this year to try out a number of combinations and at one point, was in danger of been overwhelmed by the number of boxes.
In the end, I’ve ended up with an amazing sounding system with a mind boggling small foot print. I look at it, listen to it and it’s hard to believe that so much can come from something so small.
As is always the case here, the sharing of information between everyone has been really helpful… encourages you to try things you never thought of or contemplated before! Thanks everyone 
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I concur, happy new year everyone… I hope ‘21 brings more optimism.
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Cheers @T-elmi I am always interested in the alternatives, I shall check out the Sonore, does it have SPDIF output?
Sonore rendus are USB only, but there are plenty of USB/SPDIF interface boxes around - from £30 to £1000, or just use a DAC that has USB input.