Qutest, Hugo TT2, Mscaler

initial thoughts so far running TT2 / MScaler from the zenith via USB and using ROON

after initial struggle with user interface OMG it is not intuitive is it

started off with filter 3/4 and my go to hi RES test tracks, but didn’t find much difference SQ wise VS the NDS/XPS DR combo noting however the NDS properly isolated/set-up and is fed with CHORD sarum level cables and the CHORD TT2/MSCALER combo only fed with the cheap usb cable and BNC it came with (is using the same Super Sarum cable albeit with a DIN/RCA convertor from flashbacks), so not that bothered at this point…

then remembered reading most reviewers commenting on filter 1 sounding best, switched over to that and much better, initial thoughts is seems to have taken the digital harshness which i know is prevalent on some quite system demanding recordings i use for test purposes, and voices seem to be more natural and instruments. Biggest thing i noticed was how much better my 16 bit CD FLAC rips sounded which really did boogie along.

more testing required then will do an A/B against my original source combo and have a flashbacks RCA-XLR cable enroute to try it in pre-amp mode to the 250DR

my gut feel is i suspect i will be looking for a more of an uplift that the DAVE may bring to proceedings (which i fear for my wallet…)

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Good stuff. Is it setup for max 768?

Also, does the NDS have optical out? If it does, might be worth trying that into the mscaler then the TT via dual BNC so see how it compares?

think so (is on ROON and selected DBNC input), what colours should i be looking out for on the MSCALER /TT2)

just done quick A/B comparison and does indeed sound better than the NDS on filter 1 even with the temp cables i have rigged up

less digital hashness / noise and much bigger difference on 16bit CD FLAC rips with the MSCALER/TT2 combo

will try the BNC/optical out combo (but i wouldnt be keeping the NDS as i would need to trade both it and the XPS DR in)

thanks,

mat

Whilst Zenith is something I see as a potential successor to my Mac Mini/Audirvana feeding Dave, possibly, or not in the future through MScaler (one of many successors to consider in readiness for that time coming), I do wonder about the 2Go/uGo. That with Dave and good headphones would make a very good easily transportable music system, add Hugo to use in place of Dave for mobile use, MScaler if it is justified retained for full system benefit at home. My full music collection available wherever I am in the world…

The NDS has BNC out for digital, I used a Naim DC1 cable when I owned the NDS into the Mscaler/TT2. Right now I use the DC1 cable out of my Naim Core (BNC) into the Mscaler.
I am still using the stock dual BNC cables between the Mscaler and TT2, but I have ten clip on ferrites on each cable. I am thinking on trying the Opto -DX between Mscaler and TT2, rather than spending 2.3 K on Wave High Fidelity’s top cables.
I use filter one, with no crossfeed on low gain, DBNC in DAC mode for settings on the TT2. Make sure the third light ball from the left on the Mscaler is white, which is dual BNC mode.
I find the biggest uplift in sound is when listening to 44.1 KHz files, but I do think 96 KHz files sound the best usually. To me, 192 KHz are hit and miss, a few that I have are good, but I would not spend extra buying all high res files with this combo.
The best sound you will hear out of the combo is direct driving efficient speakers directly off the TT2, using high gain, and custom made XLR to speaker cables. I ran mine this way for six months, but when I got back into Vinyl, I changed to a conventional integrated (Nagra) with analog inputs, so use the TT2 in Dac mode now.

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A new Dave 2.
Well i would like to see it have the m scaler built in, so it does away with the cable problems.
Plus a better headphone amp, like the tt2 has.
Separate power supply off better quality than the walwart plug type.
Plus different filters so you could change the sound and inject some warmth into it, maybe?

I’ve just ordered a power bank that gives a few options including 12v 4a or, 15v 3a. From what I’ve read on Head-fi, Rob says 9-15v is fine but not to exceed the 15v as you run the risk of bringing out some of the internals on the m Scaler.

He says when using a power bank…

“The M scaler is helped by using a battery, as it eliminates the 2GHz ground return currents, solving at a stroke the BNC cabling issue.”

They say RFI travelling through the dual-BNC cables’ ground connection is blocked when using a power bank as there’s no loop via power-supply ground connection.

It will be interesting to see what the difference is between the power bank vs stock power supply. That said, the dealer didn’t contact me to confirm the deliver arrived on Friday so not sure when/if it will turn up!

Not sure… I’m waiting on my M Scaler so haven’t read up yet on what each colour means!

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The TT2 should be consistently purple if you are resolving it at the highest resolution. The Mscaler will have to first node off, the second purple (ish a bit more red in this one) , the third will be white and the fourth will vary depending on the audio resolution.

I typically have the TT2 and Mscaler dimmed. Not that that affects the sound. I also use the second filter.

Someone else may have further technical insight into all of this, but from my experience this is what I have in my system.

I look forward to your continued findings. Intrigued by the Dave, but not in my budget :flushed:

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Now you mention it, I do recall Rob Watts recommending the green filter for high resolution files.

What is wrong with Dave’s PS? (it’s not a wall wart!)
Surely best to have the filtering make the waveform exactly as the original analogue, or as close as possible to achieve. If people want different then better to add separate DSP for tailoring… (That is a direction I think hifi needs to go in now, to solve the problem of different people liking different emphasis from tgeir systems, and of course helping tame room response where placement and acoustic treatment capability are limited (within limits).

I agree re MScaler build in. Is TT2’s headphone amp better?

Rob has stated that the Mscaler has massive amounts of processing going on, so it is better off in a seperate box from the DAC. The same idea as Naim, with seperate power supplies. Unfortunately the dual BNC cables do not isolate the DAC from all the processing the Mscaler does, so ferrited cables, or optical isolation (Opto-DX) solve this problem.

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Indeed, neither Dave nor Mscaler use wall warts, and as you say Dave would explode if it had to do any more sums itself (it runs very hot)!

It does, doesn’t it! I was a bit concerned when I first had one for audition, but was advised it’s normal.

I obviously dont know what type off power adapter is used on the dave and m scaler, but i have seen folk use different power supplies, that are ment to inpove it,
The tt2 headphone amp, is much more powerful than the dave and will even drive speakers, so any headphones are no problem for it.
Sure with some clever shielding they could pair them together better, as it all tends to look a bit messy and it was certainly one off the reasons i didn’t go down the dave/m scaler road.

well that’s a shame…

With Mscaler Dave, it’s not about upgrading anymore, just … what song can I listen to next…

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I realize the Dave has a proper power chord, but my Mscaler has a wall wart, or one of those little power supply things.Same power supply as my TT2.

quick update and conclusion from first test period, again with same cable set up as before

following previous comments printed off a colour guide for the confusing colours and confirmed mscaler was indeed all set correctly (video: Black (OFF); Input: white (USB); OPSR: White (MAX); TT2 remaining purple colour)

when running M/Scaler & TT2 in filter 3/4 hardly any difference vs the properly set up NDS/XPS DR combo for Hi Res recordings and definitely not worth the extra outlay to change out (which i guess is credit to the NDS even with my lowly XPS DR powering it :wink: )

when running filter 1 though is a discernible difference (not bothered with filter 2 as do not experience any harshness at all), marginally more detail than the NDS although would say not massive difference, but main things is no digital harshness and a more realistic sound in voices and instruments of any form (e.g. pianos, cymbals, drums, etc) and then a very significant improvement in SQ for 16 bit CD FLAC rips that i tended to shy away from in my collection due to the recordings but found the mscaler making them sound almost right up there with my HiRES content

outcome being i have gone an ordered a pre-loved super sarum USB cable, which means i will be definitely changing to either the TT2/MSCALER combo OR DAVE

i have a SARUM T BNC-BNC cable so will briefly test the BNC out from the NDS (but will not be using this option as just non viable for me cost/system wise)

next week will try the TT2 in pre-amp mode with the new flashback cable and will them arrange to swap the TT2 over with the DAVE

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That’s one of the things that crept up on me - the big difference I used to hear between 16 and 24 bit recordings through bare NDX or NDX/Dave all but disappeared with the Mscaler to the benefit of the vast majority of my ripped collection.

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quick question what power cables are DAVE users using and are you connecting your DAVE to same power block as your NAIM gear (for the trial i would take my powerline of the XPS DR)

also same question for the TT2/MSCALER (i have them on a separate filtered powerblock so the SMPS are away from my NAIM gear)

finally read that people using 12v battery packs on the MSCALER to get away from the SMPS issue any examples/experiences of this ?