Radial vs ring wiring

When I did my dedicated radial, I used a Lapp cable with four 10mm strands in it.

I asked my Electrician whether he would use two of those for live, and the other two for neutral, and use separate cable for earthing.

But he refused to do it.

If you want to test it, you can just try plugging the main components into one block on one 10mm radial and compare that to the ring solution when the job is done.

Surely that would be simple to arrange while your floor is up.

If you only use thin wires and standard sockets, youā€™ll never know whether thicker wires and posh sockets wouldā€™ve sounded better.

Given how good your system is it would make an interesting test of whether higher spec cables and sockets make an audible difference in a dedicated Hifi circuit.

I used a Furutech and an MS HD socket on the basis that I was only going to do it once, and I will probably stay in the house for a decade or more, so it was worth making sure the sockets and plugs are good quality.

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Resistance and length are directly related. Regardless of how thick the cable may be, 2.5mn2 or 10mm2, twice the length of the same cable will have twice the resistance, and 5m of 2.5mm2 has the same resistance as 20m of 10mm2. On that basis if resistance was the key parameter (and I donā€™t believe it is), then it is nonsense routing cables in long paths just to eventually reach where wanted.

That leads to this, the answer to how to get your new cable in place without expensive dismantling of the room ā€¦and if good for speaker cables, why not mains (subject to ensuring suitable cable is used for the exposed positioning, and compliance with applicable safety regulations):

https://community.naimaudio.com/t/cables-off-the-floor-why/33868/73

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An impossible task to trial post power up Jim (keep in mind the full warm up time of an S1 is at least 5 days) and as I wrote before Iā€™m happy with basic T&Eā€™s and RCBĀ“s. Iā€™m really not going to consider changing anything now . My system sounded truly excellent in the smaller room with similar configurations and materials and around 5m runs of cable.

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Purely as a theoretical argument, imagine that one dedicated circuit made with posh circuit breakers, cables and sockets did sound a lot better than a dedicated circuit made with ordinary domestic equivalents.

Then even after unplugging the system and waiting X days for the system to settle again from a SQ pov it may well be possible to perceive an audible improvement in SQ between the two dedicated circuits.

Iā€™m not trying to persuade you to change course now.

But I do believe in using good quality components to make a dedicated radial, which was a good investment in my case.

Many people invest heavily in very high quality specialised audio wires and sockets and fuses in their system but invest relatively little for the parts used up to and including the wall socket.

Even if the effect of such investment works on something like an inverse square law, it may well still be a good investment to use higher spec components from the dedicated CU to the wall socket(s), and result in an audible improvement.

Time for me to sign out :exploding_head: :joy:

Iā€™m watching this Albert King and BB King concert in Japan from 1989.

It sounds amazing - mainly due to my dedicated radial! :slightly_smiling_face::musical_score::snowboarder::golfing_woman:

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What do you believe are the important parameters in Hifi cabling?

Iā€™m jealous. Where can I find the cable you used?

I had to buy the Lapp cable direct from Lapp because none of their retailers had it.

(That meant registering with them to buy it as a business).

I got my Belden cable from HiFi Collective.

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Yes whatā€™s the model?

Just to throw something else in the mix, if using armoured cable does the earth sheathing offer some further protection from noise? Just a thought!

Iā€™m using 6mm2 armoured cable into a single unswitched MK socket noting that the earth is the same size as the live and neutral. I also increased the number of copper earthing rods in my garden from one to five using one in the centre then the other four around it with stared earthing from the centre rod to the outside rods. This on its own was a major improvement in SQ.

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I got the following advice from an expert in the HiFi industry, who advised that I should get:

ā€œ[ā€¦] a CY cable - this is a multicore cable, mains-rated, and has a braided outer shield of tinned copper. Lapp do make such a cable. Not easily found with UK-harmonised colours for live/neutral though, they are usually black with number 1 or 2 (or more for 4+ cores) but it is fine to add coloured sleeving to both ends of the wires to indicate phase. There is a green/yellow wire inside for Earth at least though. The outer braided shield should be un-braided at the CU end and made into a ā€œtailā€ of twisted braid wire strands, this is then sleeved with green/yellow tube and connects to the Earth busbar of the CU, ideally right next to where the Earth wire of the CY cable goes in. The wall socket end of the cable should have the braid cut back and insulated - it is Earthed at the CU end anyway, which acts as a drain for RFI. You will need the CUā€™s busbars and RCBO and also the wall socket to accept 10mm^2 cable, not all can do that so do check this before buying it.ā€

Because of a supply shortage at the time, I ended up buying a Lapp cable with 4 cores instead of 3 (which was even thicker and more awkward to work with), so the exact spec of my cable is not relevant to you if you can get what is described above.

The Lapp UK site lists all the cables they sell - then try to find one in the length you require from a retailer.

And obviously - your appropriately qualified electrician will need to be happy that all components and the way the circuit is designed and constructed is within regulations so that they can sign off the installation and give you the relevant certificates.

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Thatā€™s amazing. Thank you so much

Good luck with it.

Iā€™ll be interested to know how it goes.

My radials did take months to come fully on song.

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Russ Andrews Supersocket is Rhodium plated and accepts wire up to 14mm so thatā€™ll be a start. Then Iā€™m thinking of a dedicated consumer unit with Hager breakers.

Iā€™m finding it a little difficult to find the Lapp cable mind you.

Radial over ring as there will be less cable length. Iā€™ve learned so much in two days. lol

The outer cable protection is earthed at the CU on mine, but not connected to anything at the socket end. That in theory acts as shielding. No idea what difference this makes though

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One more thing if I ask the electrician to install another earthing rod would this be on a completely different cable or can it piggy back off the existing rod cable?

I canā€™t see any retailers selling short lengths of any variant of Lapp Olflex Classic UK 3 core in-wall power cable 10mm2.

Some sell full reels, but thatā€™s no good for you.

If you want it you could ask your electrician to order direct from Lapp UK as a business customer.

(You might want to ask around for an electrician who has done home audio related work previously.)

Another option is check out or talk to shops that sell HiFi cables from the reel such as HiFi Collective or MCRU or dealers that do hifi/AV installations involving in wall cables.

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Thatā€™s a great help thank you :pray: