I’m new here,
I want to buy a Naim system that delivers real power into 2.5ohm loads.
I’m not an expert, so I ask for advice.
I’m not interested only in new gear, I’m interested in budget, because less I spend in amp, more I have for source.
I also really like vintage gear, not only for the style.
Just to say, if budget allows me, as source i think at an old nds with 555 or XPS DR (or not, depends).
All naim amps should be able to handle a 2+ ohm load … though some ( like a 500 series ) better than others
But care will need to be taken with correct speaker cable and to monitor how warm the amp gets untill your happy all is well
Actually the NAP500 is the one amp in the Naim range that may have some trouble with an impedance of 2 ohms, due to its bridged design.
The issue I see here though is that while Naim amps are generally considered load tolerant, and should indeed be OK down to around 2 ohms, they were never really optimised for this kind of situation. If that’s your priority then you should probably look at something more suitable like one or two big muscle amps, where the ability to operate into a near short-circuit was their who reason to be.
Out of interest what are these speakers with such an onerous load?
Wilson Benesch, I look at many of them, like Chimeras, Vectors, Acts, Discovery.
some easier than others obviously.
Ah, If is possible I prefer to connect my HIFI system at my HT system, like I can with SN3, but i don’t know if SN3 is enough for Chimeras.
Also with Hicap DR and maybe another 200 Dr in order to biampling them.
I also really like the olive Nac 52 ps52 (or SC) 250,
or the current line with 282-250 etc. (you have to suggest the best option)
or 252- 250 etc (same, 252-250 because I read the rules of upgrade first the pre instead of the power).
or also 72- 32.5 , 250 HIcap?
But i don’t know which one can handle, and i can’t try every combination.
My needs are less box possible, and the connection with HT (but for this I can think of something to do the trick).
I’m not a real audiophile, I like music, I listen to music instead of the system.
and the more a sistem forgiven the better it is for me.
I think that the hierarchy in a system is a loudspeaker, amplifier, source in order of importance.
And also that a balanced system is better (except for loudspeakers that can be a little not balanced in my opinion).
Last but not Least, one of the gems of WB (especially Chimeras, Acts and Discovery) are the imaging and the soundstage, and the capacity to disappear.
I know that this is not the main Naim strength, but i Think that with good room acoustic work, good speaker positioning and a good system I can have a pretty good outcome.
This is some of the reasons why I choose WB.
Interesting, I understood more or less the opposite on the product pages where it says for the 500, “capable of prolonged output into 2 ohms with no discernible impact on performance” and similar for 200, 250, and 300, with an added “The Naim Audio NAP xxx is stable into any load and can drive a 2-ohm load for long periods of time.”
I have no need and didn’t research it more, and I would not have it expected to be the right amps for Apogees or whatever with below 1 Ohm, but the wording seems to not just say that 2 Ohms are fine, but seems to emphasize that they can handle it really well
I know that Wilson Benesch at the launch of the Chimeras in some Demos uses the Naim System, but not sure about what they use.
I was wondering who is the best candidate in the Naim range to do the job with ease.
Suedkiez, apologies, i shouldn’t have said less than 2 ohm load. The bridged design of the NAP500 provides more power but less current. Naim amps are fine into 2 ohms. However, you have to also remember that the Naim amps also have a protection circuit that will kick in to protect the amp when you get down below 2 ohms. In the past, when faced with a speaker with really onerous impedances the NAP300 has often been preferred. Sometimes even bi-amped where possible.
Oh, thanks for clarifying, so do I now understand correctly that 2 is fine in principle, but not less, and if you are close to 2 the 300 might be the better choice?
Edit: and is this 2 Ohms according to the speaker spec sheet, or in a dynamic situation where impedance changes as usual? (I.e. what happens when it dips below 2 for a short time?)
Same here, except for the 500 that i don’t even consider, cause is out of my possibility.
So I haven’t read the description about it.
I admit is not clear, because as you state there is the same description on a very different amp selection.
And also, If I am not wrong supernait is more or less a 202-200 in an integrated version,
many suggest if you want to biamp with SN to pair with 200 cause the 200 is the most equal at the internal SN power amp.
If this is true also the SN alone and much better paired with a 200 can handle the job.
But reading the answer of Richard, maybe is not that simple.
Anyway I’m pretty sure as I said that Naim can pilot Chimeras well, only i don’t know which Naim.
I would suggest than NAP250 upwards be sufficient for all but the Chimeras… also dependig on which Act model you are looking at the NAP250 shuld be ok For the Chimeras I would sugget you would need a NAC252/NAP300 as a minimum…
On the whole for these WB speakers, the further up the NAIM food chain you go the better they will sound. They are very good speakers and actually not that demanding to drive, but they do like good clean power
The Acts is the ones reviewed on Stereophile, I don’t know if i’m allow to put here the link.
In real world conditions, you’d probably have to see. Much would probably depend on what ends up tripping the protection. IIRC some years back there was something in the crossovers of some of the big B&Ws that would trip out Naim amps. In the end Naim made a small change to the protection circuit (I believe it’s retro-fitted to early Classic/Reference amps at time of service) so they would play along better.
Thank you, again.
Be aware that a loudspeakers load will consist of inductive and capacitive load as opposed to purely resistive load.
Do your loudspeakers present a 2-2.5Ω load or are you just asking?
As you can see the Spec is 2.5 Min.
And also I read suggestions from owners that say Chimeras need an amp that delivers power in 2.5Ohm.
Chimeras have 8 isobaric Drive units to feed, plus the normal Drive.
The spec sheet states impedance of the Chimera is 4Ω nominal, 2.5Ω minimum. Which to me seems a bit low as the current range of Naim power amps are rated with an 8Ω load and whilst its widely known that Naims will driver lower impedance loads, unless anyone can confirm that speaker is OK then there may be a risk.
Perhaps consult with both manufacturers, who should assist.
But fran, why choose a speaker with such a low impedance drop in the first place?
Find something different and buy the Naim amplification you can afford. Beyond making any speaker play music, there is no control if the current delivery isn’t large enough. Im getting away with driving PMC Fact 12s with a 552/500DR, but I am sure the bass reproduction could be even greater using a pair of big Bryston (say) mono blocks delivering a higher current. ATB Peter
I like the sound of Wilson Benesh with Naim.
However didn’t heard the Chimeras. These are 30 k beast, often powered by big monoblocs as Goldmund, Ch precision, Constellation.
Under a nap 500 dr, I really doubt that they will open. My intuition. IMHO.
I like it too.
well, unfortunately I found out which system was…
“” A completely different experience—although one which was similarly musically sustaining—awaited us in the room from San Francisco retailer Audio Vision, where they were featuring Naim and Wilson Benesch. We walked in on a multichannel demo of the live Diana Krall DVD. Yeah, we know what you’re thinking, but this wasn’t home theater, no matter what the source was or whether or not we wound up watching it on a plasma screen. It was music and we were entranced by the performance and the sound (and we even dug watching the expressions on the bassist’s and guitarist’s faces as Ms. Krall played the bejezus out of her Steinway.
The primary speakers were the $20,000/pair WB Chimeras and the electronics included Naim’s NAC 552 preamplifier ($22,400, reviewed by Mikey Fremer in the July Stereophile ) and a whole slew of NAP 500 power amplifiers ($21,950 each). That’s what we’re talkin’ about! “”
I also found on another Forum a 3d where some people talk about this same show.
They are all very very impressed.
They compared Chimeras with speakers that cost much more, like Magico, like Kharma, like Vivid etc.
But this is not the point.
I really like WB as said because the innovation, and for the sound with all kinds of music, and the things that stand out in my opinion is the ability to disappear ( especially Discoverys Chimeras and Acts) and the insane soundstage and imaging with proper disc and room care of the system.
Not mention that apart from Chimeras they are easy to drive, but as others say, the most you have the most they sing.
And this is the reason why I look at it.
The only review of WB I could find on the Stereophile website was of the Square Ones and they’re an easy load. Sterephile publish impedance plots for speakers they do a full review of, here’s the one for the Square One.
For comparison here’s the plot for the Magico M2s that a couple of members here using 500s are quite keen on.
You can see the impedance dips to near 2Ω at 80Hz but the challenge for the amp is around 60Hz where the phase angle of 55 degrees combines with a 3Ω impedance to present a high current demand.