Thank you
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I did ask my dealer about this when looking at the 1300 in the flesh. He said it’s not just a 1200G2 without the DJ toys. The 1200G2 is still better.
The nearest comparison was to say the 1300 is to the 1200G2 what the 1500 is to the 1200GR2. I.e. it’s a another thing entirely. While I can do without a pitch slider, I’d miss the strobe and cue light.
Someone mentions SL1200 mods. Timestep are a UK company that do a range of very serious mods semi sanctioned by Technics. Power supply, SME C based arm, platter, mat, feet. Not cheap but you can choose a subset of mods. The have never responded to any of my emails though so I’m going to get the MCrU power supply for my 1200. I actually think the current G and GR incarnations don’t need new arms, feet, or platters. New power supply, maybe. Better headshell, definitely yes.
I don’t think many decks do PRaT like the Technics to be honest. A maxed out LP12 is certainly more resolving. But a 1200 gets you moving.
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@feeling_zen - not sure I follow here. There is not a 1200G2 as far as I know? (The ‘G’ remains unchanged).
Sorry to take thread down a Technics rabbit hole.
Crossed wires. Apologies.
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Don’t checked if the price includes a tonearm.
£1800 including arm in UK at the moment.
Although I paid £2k for mine, I did get a DL103R for £300. 
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Have you compared to similar technics 1200 G? price?
I haven’t compared it to anything. I bought it without listening to it.
Reviews seem to suggest less detailed than a technics, but more natural. It’s on a par with ndac, which I also own.
I’ve been using a DL103 cartridges for over 10 years, so buying a turntable designed to be used with one seemed a good idea. No need to worry about cartridge/arm matching.
Plus. No more spring adjusting, belt and oil replacement, plus setting up the cartridge in the removable headshell and VTA adjustment is a doddle.
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And it’s nicer vs the technics, which counts a bit too.
The SL 1000 r is gorgeous, but gorgeous price too.
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Are you saying the new Denon turntable is designed to be used with a DL103R ?
or even comes fitted with one ?
It doesn’t come with a cartridge.
The arm design is optimised for use with Denon cartridges.
There is a video on youtube called “Denon DP-3000NE Behind the Scenes | Product Manager” Design features of the turntable/arm are explained.
It comes with an additional screw on weight, so a large range of cartridge weights can be used. (What a great idea) 
Heresy!
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I saw a good deal on a used Vertere MG-1 today. Thought long and hard about it.
It will be better than my DG-1 I’m sure, but the DG-1 is really very good.
My digital source is also very good, in fact possibly as good but ‘different’ in feel to the TT. This is a new thing since I invested in a bunch of network tweaks.
It’s left me feeling that my TT ‘should’ be better than the digital (like it was)…
Then I thought about it.
The MG-1 looks super cool, but I want it for playing records. If I want art I can buy art.
I have 250 LPs (mostly 60s- mid 80s), 350 CD rips (mostly mid 80s to 2010 with about 20% overlap on LPs) and about 1000 ‘favourites’ on Qobuz (well almost infinite if I want). I don’t buy new LPs, I just use Qobuz. I do enjoy buying used LPs, but we are starting to run out of space on the bookshelf and my wife has put her foot down on dedicated LP storage in the lounge (she has been infinitely tolerant of the hi fi to be fair).
Does it make sense to upgrade the player at a cost of about twice the existing physical media again, and for only a historical part in my listening habits…
No it doesn’t. I’ll stick with what I have and resist the upgrade bug.
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This is a fascinating thread - especially those raising the question of “how many of us choose a turntable entirely based on sound quality”?
When I was a lad, there were two turntables I coveted more than any other: the Michell GyroDec and the Linn LP12. Regular readers will know that I ended up with a Gyro as an engagement present from my missus around 1999. Since then I have been blessed to spend time with a number of turntables as part of my reviewing activity, although ironically it wasn’t until December 2024 that I had the opportunity to review the LP12. I am currently working my way through a number of the world’s finest turntables quite deliberately and I have to say it’s been absolutely fascinating being able to switch back and forth between my Gyro/SME IV/Lyra Kleos SL and the LP12 Klimax. In truth they can sound quite similar on some tracks and then quite different on others, or in response to changing the cartridge loading on the Gyro. Eventually though you realise there is a consistent character to each of them. They are both a stunning way to enjoy vinyl replay!
Judged entirely on accuracy and naturalness though, neither are quite as good in my view as the SME Model 60 (no surprise there given the price difference) or the AVID Acutus Dark Iron which is an absolutely astonishing piece of engineering for a price somewhere between the Gyro and Linn. It actually pains me to say that it is better than my beloved Gyro because I can’t bring myself to part with that for sentimental reasons. The Avid and SME simply go lower, the Avid has perhaps the finest suspension design I have ever seen and both offer a sense of unbridled dynamics and shattering power and insight. Neither has quite the sense of “fun” as the LP12 though.
As a reviewers tool though or for someone seeking strictly accurate reproduction the Avid with my preferred SME arm and a high quality cartridge from Lyra or something like an Audio Technica ART 20 would in my view be the most accurate turntable you can buy under £30k. It gets closer to the SME Model 60 than anything else I have ever heard and for less than half the price.
One other observation worth making is that the Gyro takes a quantum leap forward when fitted with a “super-arm” of the calibre of an SME. All too often it is experienced with a Rega derived arm and having lived with an RB600 on mine for the best part of 20 years I can report that upgrading to the SME IV has made a vast difference. With a Rega derived arm it can’t match the Linn, with an SME though it’s a whole different ball-game…
In my view if you are buying a turntable like the RP10, Klimax LP12, a maxed out Gyro or an Acutus or SME 30/60 you are in for a treat no matter what. They are all absolutely glorious and buying a turntable is so often about much more than mere sound quality. There’s an emotional/aspirational element to all this that simply cannot be overlooked.
JonathanG
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Otoh, in 40 or 50 years, we will all be dead and someone else will have our money and our vinyl and our turntables. On the meantime, don’t you owe it to yourself to have round you the most beautiful things that you reasonably can?
Only you can decide whether ‘beautiful’ means what balance of sound and vision and which items qualify of course. Ditto for the degree to which form should follow function.
I think the DG-1 is a winner on sound and vision, but I wouod take an MG-1 or SG-1 instead if going down that road. As pointed out by @JonathanG , Avid also make wonderful looking and wonderful sounding decks, as do at least a dozen other firms.
For engagement with the music, I’d take my Stiletto LP12 over any Michell (including Orbe with SME V and iirc Koetsu) or any SME (which doesn’t include 30 or above) that I have heard. Otoh, for looks or different listening priorities, I might pick either. And my answer might be different if we included a kitted-out Brinkmann, SG-1, Avid, Clearaudio or several other great options.
As mentioned above, there are at least a dozen great turntables around if in the position to afford something in the MG-1 category. You might fancy hearing at least a few or you might want to stick to one just like what you have but a little better in every way…
Tempted?
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As far as I know Denon make a number of different cartridges.
It is well known DL103R require a high mass tonearm such as fx FR64 (not just a screw on weight).
High mass arm not a requirement for other Denon cartridges to my knowledge.
Don’t burn me my lord!
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If you watched the youtube video I suggested, you’d know the effective mass of the tonearm is 20g. A quick google shows the effective mass of the FX FR64 is 20g.
The arm used on the 3000NE is a variant of the DA309.
It appears Denon only produce variants of the 103, plus the 110.
It’s not likely Denon would produce a new flagship turntable and not optimise it to work with their flagship cartridge. (DL103R).
Anyway, there are lots of 3000NE reviews on the internet; everyone I looked at involves the use of a DL103. So, it’s easy o find out how the 103 performs.
Basically if you like the 103 or 103R, and want a turntable package that is guaranteed to be compatible (and looks nice) the 3000NE is a good option.
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We love our RP6.
To be fair, it’s a brilliant turntable and certainly good enough, by itself.
We’ve ended up with two turntables in our house.
We love them both. They both do things slightly differently and we’re okay with that.
In any case, could never let our RP6 go, as it came as a special gift, ( from my best mate, my wife).
Always felt our RP6 + NEO psu + Ania Pro + Aria phono was similar level to the LP12 in its original guise. The main difference perhaps that our LP12 seemed a little warmer, more organic, more natural to what we expected from music being played. ( To be fair, maybe a bias from years of playing vinyl ).
During 2020, we were moving home and this offered the opportunity for music in a second room.
We already had a pair of Epos ES14’s and the LP12, both still original from late 80’s. So, we decided to add Naim Olive shoe boxes - from the same period - in between, to create a vinyl first system, ( that is, vinyl as the leading source). Maybe a nostalgic celebration of the golden age of vinyl. A system with a lot of synergy. Audio reproduction items perhaps made for each other. We then decided to upgrade the LP12, to modern specifications. But it was also important to us, that outwardly our “old fruit box” was kept all original, the way we knew and liked it.
If you are interested, these are two separate stories, told here.
Story (1) : Refreshing a venerable old lady. Good for another 30+ year.
Story (2) : Project Olive
In our case, arriving at two turntables, was more an evolution of hifi pieces into two systems, than any deliberate decision, per se.
Differences between a Rega TT and a LP12 are maybe becoming more obvious to you by now, from your recent demo’s. For us, the Rega style is open, neutral and analytical. However, the LP12 has developed a long way in recent years, the many additional updates to the original design have maybe made the LP12 sound more modern. Maybe more analytical and resolving in the same way too.
Our LP12 - in its updated form ( version of Selekt ) - is now the best source in our house, analogue streaming or otherwise. Even more so, since we added a SuperLine for phono duties. Now, maybe more resolving and analytical than its original form. It really digs deep into vinyl to retrieve the music. It’s a revelation to hear so much from recordings. But it also retains all the boogie and warmth and “connection to music” of the original style that we liked so much.
To my way of thinking, there is a lot of subconscious thought that goes into selecting a turntable, a mix of emotions, some of which are connections that go backwards to previous experiences with vinyl and using record players. As an example, for me, the LP12 is how a record player should look. A fluted LP12 is such an attractive object. So completely agree with @JonathanG …
So, yes, definitely worth the investment.
Although, to be honest - with LP12 bits and pieces - doesn’t have to cost as much as maybe you think 
Lastly, in both cases - over time - we have tried to aim for a well rounded and nicely balanced system. Both of our turntables are used within the context of a coherent system.
Good luck with you own journey.
Hope that helps.
R
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@ratrat Fabulous! Many thanks for going into so much detail. Great to read how the LP12 was rebuilt internally but keeping that beautiful afro plinth. And the whole upgrade of the Ittok too, and then the Troika refresh as well. I didn’t know they could be brought back to life and refurbished to a new spec.
Interesting reading how effective the stock RP6, Ania Pro are in comparison to an older LP12. I’ve always thought the RP6 / and P6 are really overlooked in some ways and think people pass over them when going from a starter deck to something more high end. The sweet spot in the Rega line up as far as I’m concerned.
@JonathanG Superb post - many thanks for sharing the details of all of the high end turntable reviews. A superb selection indeed, and I bet the SME Model 60 was something rather special.
I do wonder if the Michell Orbe I heard was compromised or ‘held back’ by the Michell arm and mid range Hana MC cart that was being used, as it sounded a little slow compared to the Rega, and much preferred the P10’s faster presentation.
I’ve only ever heard Avid decks at a show, and not sure which one was being demonstrated. Alas, no dealer nearby, but it would have been interesting to hear their players in a more forgiving dealers room.
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Update: I’m still on the fence between P10 and LP12. That’s after another dem of the Majik Sondek with stock MC Koil. The dealer in question advised using the current Linn Majik trade in scheme to get the £750 discount, and then add a better power supply (new) straight off and even perhaps a better Kore sub chassis (used) too. I’ll have to be quick if I go down that path though as the clock is ticking.
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