Adding ONE REL Reference 31 sub (zero realestate in room for two subs) to Kudos Titan 808 tri-amped (3 x NAP500s) with SNAXOS in an all Naim 500 system. Saw one post where sub placed smack in between (and forward) of the speakers. My only real option. Sub will sit in front of middle rack - foward of the speakers. (Little tables and ottoman will be gone). Room also has been professionally acoustically tested and treated.
Any other thoughts suggestions please are welcome. Thank you. (NB. 2 subs impossible).
That is some system, looks amazing and no doubt it sounds amazing….
Sub placement with limited flexibility may not achieve optimum results. I recently attended a rel event and they really do make a difference… have a chat with rel, they are super helpful.
I am surprised that you feel the need to run subs, I have a lovely balance using my 808’s and the bass, weight, tones are excellent. It’s what most audio nuts pick up on when they hear my system.
The subs improve everything Dunc, I was of the belief subs were all about the bass but having done the demo and now the owner of a pair they improve every aspect across the range.
My system sounded great without subs but now if I turn them off it sounds broken as so much is lost v the subs.
I think it is only about the bass - given the frequency range of subs, and their usually steep cutoff filter, it can only be bass. But bass that you might not even notice, not necessarily a direct or obvious output from a musical instrument, but part of the musical recording: it simply makes the music complete, something missing when played through all those systems without either full range speakers or subs.
I have never tried subs, so i can’t really add much more than what I have already said.
But the difference i got from the amp i use now to the 500dr i had before was a big difference, obviously i didn’t have 3 off them, but the extra grip, drive, tones, etc, was easily the biggest difference between the amps. So maybe I am in a better place to start with? But as said I certainly don’t get the feeling i need to add more bass weight, etc. As like I said I have a great balanced system at the moment that has taken ages to get it right for me, plus after doing the show, loads commented on how balanced it sounded, plus how fantastic the bass was in tone and control. So maybe for me it not a road i need to go down and upset all my good work?
Indeed, I think it’s important to stop and enjoy what we have, after all it’s ultimately about the music!
A house move and pesky room acoustics forced my hand to change and have now got to a place where everything is place to immerse myself in music and stop worrying about boxes.
My full system sounds amazing and in a different room I have an Atom HE and active 20’s and that is just as enjoyable at a fraction of the cost of my main system.
Subs just offer more for a relatively low cost and boy they make a difference, way beyond Bass weight and they can be tuned to your room but it’s far from essential
Me too, I wish Naim would do a high end streaming pre amp and I would jump at it!
I did listen to some high end DCS system with I think a vitus amp with the new range topping Innuos and it wasn’t really for me despite being excellent it was just a little too hifi for my liking.
As always it about getting the balance right, pointless have a very detailed system if it sounds cold, but again pointless having a musical system if it doesn’t show you all detailed music you are missing. But get the right mix of both and well, you know.
I agree, it seems there is more to it than bass weight. I just built these two subs and couldn’t live without them now. One of my best upgrades so far, these main speakers though drop off pretty sharply at 50hz so they always felt a bit weak and lacking in the sub bass but the new subs integrated very nicely. My PMC’s on the other hand have good quality bass that dig pretty deep but cannot compete with these subs. I think I would have to get some pretty large and expensive speakers to match this quality.
Thanks everyone for the responses. There’s a Steinway 7ft grand piano occupying a quarter of the room, and a in sofa the other quarter - which itself opens to the dining room.
Appreciate everyone’s replies. My interest in a sub is to round out and complement the audio picture. Not to shake anything. Hoping to appreciate an enhanced and enlarged sound image without noticing the Sub. As others have said, the only way to notice the effect of the sub is by what you lose when it’s off. (to quote Joni Mitchell: “Don’t it always seem to go
That you don’t know what you’ve got
Till it’s gone”). Otherwise don’t wish to be particularly aware of the sub per se.
The sub will be hooked up from a DIN-out on the 552 preamp directly to the high-level RCA sub inputs. This feeds the full frequency spectrum information to the sub which — according to REL — allows for the sub to do internal signal adjustment prior to its low frequency output. This was deemed preferable to taking the low channel output signal after the crossover or at the woofers posts on the speakers. The pre-amp signal will be the purest signal path anatomically. I imagine some opinions will differ. Will update once sub is in place for those interested. Thanks again everyone.
Have you spoken to Rel for best set up advice at all? I would contact them for advice. Most on here use high level connection direct from speakers, which is what Rel advise. Some use 552 power supply if they have active speakers.
As for having sub in the middle in front of racks I think you need to try this out and see if you like it or not.
It’s not a case of something being wrong. A sub or subs just bring so much more to the table. As was said many times in @Dan_M thread, it’s not until you turn the sub/subs off that it hits you just how much they bring to the whole listening experience. Once you have heard, you simply can’t unhear it.
I owned NBLs before I got my 808. The NBLs were paired with a n-Sub. This brought a better bass performance, a bigger soundstage and improved voices. So in this setup it made sense to add a Sub.
When I got my 808 the n-Sub didn’t work. The accuracy of the bass performance of the 808 got lost when paired with the n-Sub. I’m happy with the performance of the 808 standalone, but I haven’t investigated if other Subs can bring an enhancement of the SQ of the 808. Looking forward to hear what is your experience partnering the 808 with an Sub.
Many years ago, when I (”just”) had Titan 88’s, it just about made sense to use a sub.
After the 808s arrived (admittedly with the help of a Statement Pre), but still only driven by a 500 Power Amp, the sub seemed to me to be utterly superfluous. I can still feel the notes that I want to sense in my stomach.
Maybe I have scratched the itch and I am just satisfied ( complacent?), but with the 808s I have never ever contemplated using a Sub.
