Religion-Naim-&-U.S. Dealers!

feeling_zen
This dealer doesn’t sell tube gear. They offer primarily British brands.
Regarding negative comments from non-Naim dealers, you make a good point that technology isn’t too relevant; it’s results that matter. I think we’re all accustomed to the fact that high-end dealers are highly biased towards the brands they carry and routinely knock the competition. I have no experience with anything other than U.S. dealers but I would guess that this is a fairly common practice in the industry.

Naim_The_Dragon
While my comments were specific to one dealer, my experience in general with high- end dealers in the U.S. is that bashing of the competition is common practice. I’m not sure if this is because folks in our hobby are passionate and have strong opinions or whether the bashing is just business-as-usual; perhaps it is a bit of both.
I didn’t intend my post to be a criticism of all Naim dealers in the States; I guess my frustration resulted in a making a more-sweeping comment than may have been called for. Actually my criticism of this dealer was based on a couple of recent experiences so perhaps talking to the dealer is warranted in this case.

The dealer here in Vancouver is pretty decent. I’m not much of a customer, though. I’ve not bought anything in years.

I sometimes wonder whether the dealers could do a little better on the spread between trade-in and used prices at their stores to cut-off a bit more of the private market buy and sell. I’d tend to pay for the convenience of trade-in, if it meant saving the hassle of private sales. But there is a limit with respect to how much more.

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Richard.Dane
Thanks for your feedback. I plan to visit this dealer to discuss my last couple of experiences with them. As I mentioned, I know these folks for many years and have done quite a bit of business with them in the past. However I haven’t purchased any new Naim gear in many years; instead I’ve improved my system and focused on pre-owned Naim gear. Unfortunately this dealer has a very limited selection of used gear (otherwise I’d buy from him) and prefers not to get involved with online sales.
Again—I plan to try again with the dealer and see how things go.

My name is Donald, and I am the brand manager for Naim in North America. From what I gather in your post, you obviously had a bad experience with a particular Naim dealer in your area, which naturally does not and should not be transferred to all Naim dealers. As you have not mentioned the name of the dealer, I have no way to contact them to hear their side of the story. As we all know, there are 3 sides to every story - yours, theirs and the truth (which is usually somewhere in between).
First, let me make a few points :
1 - Dealers who have product on display have invested a great deal of money in their stores, as well as in their staff (salary, training). They are not there as a free showroom to try out gear, take up the dealer’s time and then go purchase elsewhere. That is very unfair to the dealer and very selfish on the consumer’s part.
2 - If a customer buys product elsewhere than the dealer (especially used), the dealer is under no obligation to render assistance in terms of technical support or service. They can at their discretion help the client, but it’s their call. Remember, if the dealer sold it, they made their money and will help you, but if they made nothing, what truly is their incentive here to help. This is how they feed their families.
3 - Complaining about a single dealer experience is one thing…projecting that sentiment onto ALL Naim dealers is pure ignorance. We have a fantastic network of dealers in North America who have invested substantial amounts of time and money promoting the brand.
4 - Naim dealers, like any brand out there, are re-sellers. They do not work for the company. As such, they service their clients, not other dealers’ clients.

I hope this clarifies a few points for all of you.

Regards,
Donald Locke
Naim Brand Manager - North America

That’s all very well, but if Naim in the US is anything like it is in the UK, the only way to have an item serviced is to take it to an authorised dealer. If they all adopted that attitude, the famous Naim service department would grind to a halt, and all those much loved vintage chrome bumper amps would become doorstops.
Having worked in retail many years ago, what I know only too well is that if you make the effort to help someone out, they will trust you, and become loyal customers in the long term. If that attitude to customer service is not held by a dealer, I wouldn’t go near them.

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In the U.S. one can get Naim gear serviced at AV Options. They are an authorized service center but there is no need or reason to go through a dealer for that.

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In my experience, AV Options no longer accepts routine repairs, either in or out of warranty. They now focus on DR upgrades, refurbishing old gear, and so on. However, one need not go through a US dealer for repairs. Upon the advice of Chris West (of AV Options), I contacted Audio Plus directly two years ago, and they did outstanding repair work at reasonable cost. Now Focal-Naim NA (or something like that) has taken over Audio Plus, and they will also accept repairs directly. Right now I’m waiting on an HDX repair… I can’t go through my original dealer since, sadly, the legendary Gene Rubin no longer carries Naim.

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I was going to note that this starts with the US distributor, not Naim UK, but have seen Richard’s note. Good to make Naim corporate aware of it! And I see as I type that the distributor has chimed in as well.

I work with an EXCELLENT Naim dealer who is 1000 miles from my home. The dealer that is 4 miles from my home - they do not really work the Naim brand, and have only a couple of pieces on the floor - just have different priorities. They know full well that I buy used, or from a different dealer; they could not even sell me an ND555 as they apparently were told by the distributor that they can’t sell one if they don’t buy one for the floor to demo, and they were not interested in doing that. No problem – happy to work with “my guy” 1000 miles away.

I recently bought $10,000 speakers from the local dealer. They prioritize that brand and were happy lend me their demo pair for in-home listening. Now not to slight my 1000 mile away guy; he actually SHIPPED me a pair of speakers to audition in-home. On a BIG palette. I did not end up buying them and only had to pay the return shipping which was just a few hundred dollars.

I could not ask for better service really from either dealer. I don’t “blame” the local for not supporting Naim; it’s not their thing and they do better selling high current stuff and speakers that require high current. And some sweet low wattage tube amps and speakers that match up with them.

There ARE great dealers in the US. I hope that you find what you want. Between Audiogon and my great dealer, I have access to anything I want.

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Totally different, Chris. In the UK, Naim is Naim. In the US, it’s “only” an independent company that is the exclusive distributor. There obviously is great interest at Naim in ensuring that their name is not besmirched by bad service on this side of the pond, but it’s a very different situation vis a vis who we deal with.

This said, I have had nothing but good luck and good service with Audio Plus. Great service with Naim AND Rega.

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Wow, hearing this makes me feel bad that I have spread my custom between dealers.

Three sides to every story – really? This suggests that nobody ever tells the truth. That is a rather bold statement. You are free to talk about yourself – but the rest of humanity? I am not sure about this…

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And your dealer obviously thinks you’ve crossed that “fine line”…

I worked in my own retail business and sometimes just to keep one’s self respect you have to tell the odd customer to F-OFF.

.sjb

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Agreed. The OP had what seemed to me a genuine grievance, albeit his presentation of it was perhaps over-extrapolated from his experience with one dealer. But understandable given his frustrating time with his dealer. Rather than being treated with sympathy he then finds himself traduced on the forum by none other than the US Naim brand manager. In my book the customer is always right even when they’re wrong. Perhaps things are different across the pond, but I’d be very tempted to convert to another religion!

Roger

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To be fair the OP does make sweeping generalizations about US Naim dealers and does sound somewhat bitter…

I’m not sure what role a brand manager plays, how they differ from a distributor and whether they are employed by Naim, but I’d expect a bit of diplomacy on a public forum. Maybe Donald is modelling his approach too much on his orange namesake.

I’ve bought various bits of used Naim and if there was a problem with my speakers I’d expect my local dealer - who didn’t sell them to me - to help me out. Which of course they would as they are lovely people and I’ve spent loads in their shop over the years on new stuff.

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Bitter maybe – and I agree he unfairly over-generalized about U.S. dealers – but he doesn’t deserve the insinuation that he used a dealer’s time and resources to audition gear, and went elsewhere to purchase. I also buy Naim gear on Audiogon, etc., in addition to purchasing new and used from my dealer. Do I also deserve to get scolded? My dealer is smart enough to know if they discourage customers from buying on the secondhand market it’s the dealer who will lose out.

If U.S. dealers and Naim N.A. don’t understand that a healthy secondhand market helps drive a healthy retail market, then I would say the U.S. market has a problem.

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Not really — his argumentative post was far too long… :wink:

First off Hungryhalibut, the points that Mr. Locke made are well taken and professionally presented. The US market isn’t the UK market. I’m guessing you’ve never been in any type of sales. In almost any profession selling is part of the job, and time is money. When a customer comes in with an Out Of Warranty product that was bought who knows where said dealer isn’t required to help. That said that dealer isn’t being particularly smart since service is a revenue stream…When I ran Hifi stores BITD I’d mark up a repair generally 40%. Give the customer a quote, and work it from there.

Also in the US as I imagine it is in the UK, dealers are privately owned independent shops. There’s a symbiosis between Dealers and Focal/Naim… both need to be happy. Dealers need to treat customers well and Focal/Naim can’t push back too hard. Brick and Mortar stores these days have a very tough job staying afloat, and if the Manufacturer is a Bear to deal with at least in the US there are plenty of other brands a dealer can carry. That said no reason not to treat all walk in’s as potential customers until proved differently. And by differently I mean using said store to shop and then buy on Audiogon and then expect the dealer to help them out… That’s a quick way to get an earful and booted out.

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I didn’t realize US Naim dealers have no obligation to facilitate Naim service requests for Naim gear they didn’t sell. That’s not what I would expect.

I was fortunate to live a few blocks from my dealer in Chicago, Pro Musica, and bought mostly second hand Naim kit from them. They were always professional and helpful and what I consider good stewards of the brand. As this was the late 90s early 00s I had a conversation with one of the owners who didn’t like that I bought second hand gear online but I explained to him that I would gladly purchase the kit from him if he had the kit I wanted as I preferred to support local business. I also was fortunate to be in proximity of NANA (Dave/Chris) and was able to drop off my recaps/services in person.

I moved to Scottsdale (Phoenix) in the mid 00s and found the dealership offering here to be fairly nonexistent but I was also devoting more $$ to my outdoor hobbies then so I didn’t think too much of it. I’ve been getting back into HiFi in the last few years and I’ve bought some kit from my current dealer but he doesn’t carry a lot of Naim gear and would prefer to sell me Linn it seems but I’ll likely buy Naim from him in the future b/c he sold me a NAS and did a great job of setting it up for me.