Thanks…so yes I need to know that RAAT client. If my NDS only accepts 24 bit (does it?) then surely I will not notice any difference
I am happy to disable anny media processing or conditioning…I think? What do you acutally mean? Please remember I am a total layman in this.
Simon, can you explain how you set up the 32 bit and/or show a screenshot of the signal path with the 32 bit information showing?
I’ve noticed you mention this a few times but have never noticed it mentioned on the Roon forum.
Thanks, John.
.sjb
Ah, I see it in device setup. What difference do you think 24 vs 32 bit will make. As said above I’ve rarely seen it mentioned let alone emphasised on the Roon forum.
.sjb
Roon will run fine from a HDD, from what hardware you have the Mac mini is probably your best bet. (The music can be accessed from the nas where I presume it’s stored).
Your best bet to trial Roon is direct connection from Mac mini to NDS - I think the mini has the choice of optical out?
If you then liked Roon you could get the Sonore UPnP bridge which will allow you to move the Mac away from the hifi and connect to the NDS via Ethernet. @simon.pepper uses this very effectively and from my experience using it with a UniQute it works better when the unit it is playing to has no volume function. (NDS).
As you can see from my question to Simon I’m not aware of any great claims for 32 bit vs 24.
.sjb
I think it only comes into play if you use the sanple processing DSP engine. Effectively otherwise you are taking say 16 or 24 bit sample data, expanding it to 64 bit floating in Roon Core (DSP) then resembling down to 24 bit for transport to the olde genereation Naim Streamer, for it to expand again for its digital low pass filtering forthe DAC.
The 32 bits transport of RAAT is going to minimise the extent of numeric rounding errors and quantisation errors … what will this sound like in practice… probably be almost undetectable to be honest… but it is a consideration especially if Roon volume control is utilised.
FWIW I love the Roon integration with new streamer displays… really useful to get a visual cue of artist or album art when playing Roon playlists… love it 
I have to admit, owning a Hugo TT as I do, your enthusiasm for the NDX2 into Hugo is spiking my interest. Naim seem to have nailed the signal integrity via Ethernet from what I can gather.
I may like the display more than I think (it can be turned off, can’t it?) but a remote to pause and skip etc. is one thing I miss since moving to Roon.
.sjb
Great; mnay thanks
Please advise what I need to purchase to set up the Sonore UPnP bridge?
Thanks to you all this forum is truly a magnificent friendly source of info.
I shall now take Simon’s advice and experiment with the Minimac
Not completely off when playing … not currently… but you can get it to display a clock instead which is not obtrusive.
And yes the NDX2 remote controls the Roon play list for replaying and skipping tracks…
Simon, I have been trying Roon on an Innuos box and liking it. I see the various things under Settings. Which ones in the settings are you referring to. Are any of them extension such as HQ Player?
Thanks in Advance
Phil
On the Roon client display… press the speaker icon at the bottom right of the screen for the device playing out… then press on the DSP icon that becomes visible… then you have whole group of options.
All these bit manipulation functions are processed by the Core for a specific end point… so your settings for your Naim can be quite different from say your Airplay devices.
Wow…I am completely sold…_
Please advise what I need to purchase to set up the Sonore UPnP bridge?_…I need to buy this asap!
I am sorry I can’t advise, I am not familiar with those devices. But I can say a second generation Naim streamer works very well with Roon and sounds fantastic too
Hi Davidr,
I believe you can run Roon just fine on your Mac Mini. Mine is very similar, perhaps one iteration newer, and Roon handles upsampling/DSP/etc without breaking a sweat. Let the NAS just store your local media.
I recently discovered the Sonore UPnP Bridge software which allows Roon to “push” music to any UPnP endpoint such as your NDS. I have a NAC-N 272, but the same principle applies.
There are various hardware choices which can run the Sonore UPnP Bridge such as Sonore devices (e.g. microrendu, ultrarendu), Small Green Computer and (here in the UK) Audiostore (formerly known as Vortexbox).
So I chose an Audiostore Mite so that I have local support.
The Mite is essentially a tiny computer running a dedicated audio operating system called SonicOrbiter OS (I believe Audistore have slightly modified it). The Mite is very easy to use. It simply requires power and a wired connection to your network. Setup is fairly simple. I had one issue when the Mite couldn’t detect my 272 but was quickly resolved by reinstalling the Sonore UPnP Bridge app.
So, if this the route you want to take, all you need to buy is the Audiostore Mite and follow the instructions here. Within Roon, you setup the Mite as a Squeezebox Lite device.
I’ve been using this setup for a couple of days and seems to be going well.
Many thanks. Willro
I have one further question and it is double checking your statement in the other thread
I am hoping that the following logic is correct:
Roon will recognise NDS as a RAAT device and the NDSwill pull the stream from the Sonore bridge and thus recognise it as UPnP and so I will be able to use Roon to stream in sync to my main system and two Musos? This means it has to ‘group’ the Sonore Bridge and 2 Musos together. If not it will be horrible.
I have done some tests with Roon connecting my NDS with airplay and Roon will not allow me to group the Musos and NDS/airplay, so they play out of sync which is useless to me.
As writing I realise I have another question: I assume that I will be using the Roon remote and so can use it with multiple iOS devices at the same time
I’ve certainly found Roon integration with Naim streamers to work flawlessly with my Atom, an also with my NDX1/Hugo1 via an Airport Express, as far as the limitations of the AE permit.
The option to turn off the screen is a work in progress for Naim at the moment, at least for some models, the safe bet here being the ND5XS2!
Bizarrely, the new streamers have a swanky new Zigbee remote that is unable to control the UPnP input at all, but at least you could use it as a volume control when playing via Roon.
Hi Simon,
My display is completely off when I use Roon (and I appreciate it). I control Roon with an iPad.
Can’t you turn off yours?
Thomas
No I have my display on… I like it like that… well cool… and given the extensive design and engineering to decouple the display from the DAC and transport with respect to noise, it would seem churlish to turn it off
Yes you can use multiple devices as a Roon remote.
As for your NDS/Muso sync question, Roon itself is a multiroom music system which I believe should be sync’d. To be honest, I haven’t tried that myself as I only have need for the one room.
I’m comparing Roon running on two Innuos boxes into nDAC so I group them so I can switch between them to see how similar they sound. I could add my iPad or iPhone if I wanted!
Phil
Hi Davidr,
I think uPnP bridges are definitely a better option than adding a rpi Dac etc, But the “Sonore UPnP bridge” is only one option. I have an ND5 XS, and I use Roon , without any additional hardware - I just purchased Roon software. It is installed the Roon server I had lying around, but I also installed LMS-to-uPnP on that same box. This is a piece of opensource code, freely available. all you need to do is set Roon in the interface to turn on “Logitech Media Server compatibility” and then edit a config file in LMS-to-uPnP . I accept that this is a more technical route, however it will allow the testing of Roon without any outlay. The only downside is that the meta data doesn’t show up on my streamer screen, I can live without it since I prefer the Roon interface on a tablet. Not sure if digital volume works either - will need to check - i think maybe the DSP engine needs to be on for that, but i have it off and just use the volume on my NAC 102.
The LMS-to-uPnP is avalable from here :
https://github.com/philippe44/LMS-to-uPnP
https://sourceforge.net/projects/lms-to-upnp/
Also there is nothing to compile - all software is pre-compiled for many architectures and all binaries come inside the zip file including win/mac/rpi/linux/nas devices:
squeeze2upnp-aarch64
squeeze2upnp-armv6hf-static
squeeze2upnp-ppc
squeeze2upnp-x86
squeeze2upnp-aarch64-static
squeeze2upnp-bsd-x64
squeeze2upnp-ppc-static
squeeze2upnp-x86-64
squeeze2upnp-armv5te
squeeze2upnp-bsd-x64-static
squeeze2upnp-sparc
squeeze2upnp-x86-64-static
squeeze2upnp-armv5te-static
squeeze2upnp-osx-multi
squeeze2upnp-sparc-static
squeeze2upnp-x86-static
squeeze2upnp-armv6hf
squeeze2upnp-osx-multi-static
squeeze2upnp-win.exe
There is a config file in the bridge software called config.txt this is where you set the maximum limits of you endpoint hardware - my ND5 XS can do 192KHz and 24bit, so i describe them in the config below. I think the way these settings work is that they advertise back to the to Roon core what your hardware can do and that in turn triggers the DSP engine to kickin where needed.
If its worth me doing a separate post on this let me know and i can add the systemd scripts etc.
Here is my config.txt file:
<squeeze2upnp>
<common>
<streambuf_size>524288</streambuf_size>
<output_size>4194304</output_size>
<stream_length>-3</stream_length>
<enabled>1</enabled>
<roon_mode>1</roon_mode>
<codecs>aac,ogg,flc,alc,aif,pcm,mp3</codecs>
<mode>thru</mode>
<raw_audio_format>wav,raw,aif</raw_audio_format>
<sample_rate>48000</sample_rate>
<L24_format>1</L24_format>
<flac_header>1</flac_header>
<forced_mimetypes></forced_mimetypes>
<seek_after_pause>0</seek_after_pause>
<send_icy>1</send_icy>
<volume_on_play>1</volume_on_play>
<volume_feedback>1</volume_feedback>
<send_metadata>1</send_metadata>
<send_coverart>1</send_coverart>
<max_volume>100</max_volume>
<accept_nexturi>1</accept_nexturi>
<min_gapless>10</min_gapless>
<auto_play>0</auto_play>
<server>?</server>
<resample_options></resample_options>
</common>
<upnp_socket>?</upnp_socket>
<slimproto_log>info</slimproto_log>
<slimmain_log>warn</slimmain_log>
<stream_log>warn</stream_log>
<output_log>info</output_log>
<decode_log>warn</decode_log>
<main_log>info</main_log>
<upnp_log>info</upnp_log>
<util_log>warn</util_log>
<log_limit>-1</log_limit>
<device>
<udn>uuid:67a91540-097a-d74a-d66d-2bcf116dfe06</udn>
<name>Kodi (kodi)</name>
<friendly_name>Kodi (kodi)</friendly_name>
<mac>bb:bb:2a:39:56:53</mac>
<enabled>1</enabled>
</device>
<device>
<udn>uuid:5F9EC1B3-ED59-79BB-4530-0011F68C99A2</udn>
<name>naim lounge</name>
<friendly_name>naim lounge</friendly_name>
<mac>bb:bb:01:a9:ba:03</mac>
<enabled>1</enabled>
<sample_rate>192000</sample_rate>
<send_coverart>0</send_coverart>
<volume_on_play>-1</volume_on_play>
</device>
</squeeze2upnp>
Hope this helps