Roon endpoint for Roon trial?

Thank you for your kind words.
I have not played with DSP, so no comment. It is something I should try with my sub systems (3 have ceiling speakers and the other one has an old pair of Linn Kans stuck on a mezzanine level.
I have used trial periods of both Tidal and Qobuz. I prefer Tidal for my taste in folk music, but Qobuz has a better classical selection. I intend to dip into them a few times a year to catch up on new music.
I do like the Roon radio feature but I also discover new stuff from Radio Paradise.

You never know whether anyone makes any sense of one’s Avatar, interesting to know there are many commonalities in our interests! I still skate several times a week, just not since lockdown :frowning:

Ahh, OK, I understand your point.
I guess I went through a similar process as what you are highlighting before I elected to do a trial and subsequently went for a lifetime subscription.

Let me give you my take on your questions:-

  • I wouldnt get hung up about it. Just interchange Endpoints & Outputs as you see fit!

  • I didnt subscribe to Roon to get an SQ uplift. If you want to faff around with DSP Im sure there could be a perceived uplift. All you need to know is that it delivers a SQ through a Naim streamer as good as the signal that arrives. I find the quality of Tidal via Roon into my NDS excellent, and my ripped files from my Innuos server not necessarily any different from without Roon. So I would say it delivers a SQ as good as before. The music management and integration of local libraries + streaming services are great. The play anywhere in the house on all my devices (that I mentioned before) I find brilliant, all controllable from iPad, smartphone, PC etc, enabling single room or multi room capability with different product makes.

  • I think they do to be fair JimDog. The fact that you and I dont have a Roon Ready device means we need a workaround to Roonify our 272 / NDS (delete as appropriate!). Everyone needs a Roon Core installed as the basis for a Roon system, there are many different options and they provide minimum specs in their Knowledge Base. The fact that you intend to use an older laptop is your prerogative. You cant really blame Roon for that, right? I took a punt on a UPnP Bridge without knowing if I was even going to like and enjoy what Roon did for me. After all, I could always sell it on flea bay if the worst came to the worst

  • You dont. It just connects to your switch or router with an ethernet cable

  • Only way to find out is to try it. If you start adding in a lot of DSP maybe it wont work so well. At the end of the day its a trial for you to evaluate whether its for you, but also to see if your hardware works with it. You dont have to sign up at the end if its not for you.

  • Indeed, I wasnt suggesting you should change to a Zen, merely sharing my experiences with my set up. I updated my server to a Zen because I needed to replace my previous server (getting old with issues…). The fact that it could run as a Roon Core was another positive reason behind my change. The thing about Roon is that it can be set up in so many different ways depending upon what you run, that makes it very flexible. I use a Zen as my Roon Core, you could use a laptop, a PC, a NAS, etc etc, you just need to check your specs are sufficient and then trial it to see

Phew! That was a monster reply, sorry if I went on a bit.
All Im trying to say is that if you are keen to trial it on your 272 then you need to sort something out before you take the trial and download Roon.
Otherwise, just download it to your laptop, trial it and see how you get on.

Right, Ill shut up now, thats me! Hope that helps JimDog

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Thanks Garyi - that’s a really helpful suggestion, which, like all the things you ever say to me shows that you are really trying to help me find a way through the hifi maze (NOT).

Just out of interest, where are you in the UK - county will do?
Wondering if you are anywhere near me, I wasnt quite sure where ‘Near the centre of the observable universe of sound waves’ is in the UK!

I would be delighted to help you, if you want advice on specific gear or a walk through of the procedure. What I am reading is all the reasons you wont use Roon, you seem to have gotten to a position of your own accord, I am responding in kind.

FWIW the quickest way for you to get started is with a simple USB dac (for instance) and any semi modern pc or mac or nas.

Unfortunately thats not very near Warwickshire, sorry JimDog, might not be convenient for you to drop by!

Ah - I’m from Solihull, which was in Warwickshire then.
I used to play Warwick at rugby in the 70s as a schoolboy, so I know it well.
My folks still live in Worcestershire…

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I’m running Roon, very happily, on a 2009 model MacMini- 2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor and 8GB of RAM. This doesn’t seem massively different from the processor in use on the laptop but the memory is certainly more.

Still, it’s a trial so there’s little lost by giving it a go?

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@JimDog

It’s not Roon’s fault that earlier Naim streamers aren’t Roon ready - that’s solely on Naim. You are being very unfair towards Roon in that regard. The Sonore Bridge works really well - I rely on my microRendu that goes to the USB in of my V1 to cast Roon to my UQ1 in the basement office. Works a treat.

The SQ lift you might read about is people going from streaming from a very ‘noisy’ USB out on a laptop or PC to having the Roon Core or (or standalone ROCK in my case) on a dedicated server device (NUC with an LPS in my case) sending via ethernet. That in itself should bump up the SQ no matter what kind of server software you are using.

You can just trail Roon for sheer functionality (i.e. cataloging and music discovery) using any PC and have it as both Core and Endpoint - it just won’t tell you anything in regards to sound quality. It’s bit perfect, so the software itself shouldn’t be any different from other server software, just the hardware you run it on. Roon remote can run on just about anything, and just about any PC can be made into an endpoint. I often preview new music on MacBook Air which I also use as a remote, if say the family room where the hifi is being used. Doesn’t sound great out of the Air speakers, but it does play. You can use Android and Apple phones as well, or cast via Airplay.

Don’t overthink it. Yes, it’s an investment if you like what Roon does and want it to be a part of your life. But everything in hifi costs, you should know that.

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Thanks Chris
Right now - to make use of the Qobuz trial that has about 10 days left to run - I think I’ll focus this weekend on trying to get Bubble upnp Server working again with Kazoo or Lumin.
I might look at an ifi upnp solution too.
That will help me decide whether to take out Qobuz before the cheaper Qobuz deal ends at the end of May.
Currently I have only Tidal (no NAS, no files store, no multiroom).

I don’t know how many Roon and Qobuz trials I’ll be allowed to make in quick sucession?

If I do a Roon trial without the right kit in place I may waste the trial, not test the service properly, and reach the wrong conclusion.

I do have a work iPad, so could run Roon Remote on that.
As a control device, fine.
But that doesn’t solve my endpoint/output problem.

(BTW, I’m not blaming Roon for my having a streamer that’s not Roon Ready).

Sorry to be a bore, i just glaze over at the merest hint of “roon” and go play some music. 700 bucks? Not for me.

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Ah - a refreshing blast of clarity.

Yes, my system sounds amazing already.

All of this is probably a total waste of time!

But I would like to be sure that I’m not missing another notch of SQ by using Tidal CD resolution instead of Qobuz hires files.

Without a roon endpoint device of reasonable quality, i.e. a RPi Hat or above, then using a laptop as both roon core and roon endpoint (which works functionally .btw) will only serve to prove the roon functionality including Qobuz integration, and not the sound quality, especially compared with a high-end streamer such as a 272 etc.

I trialled roon with a laptop myself (MacBook Air via USB into DAC) and I thought it worth investing the annual subscription and then I bought separate devices for the Core and Endpoints.

My current roon Core, an Intel NUC7i5 running Win10, cost a total of £550 for the kit build up from eBay (s/h NUC, fanless case, SSD, memory).

I did have both Tidal and Qobuz for a while but found the ‘versions’ feature on each album in roon to be annoying as it seemed to favour Tidal over Qobuz - so I have just dropped Tidal and this has cleaned up the presentation in the library.

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Thanks T-elmi
This confirms that I should try to test Qobuz hires now via a upnp software solution like Bubble (and not try to rush set up a shoddy version of Roon).

It’s also possible that any solution that involves plugging my laptop into my router or switches may introduce enough electrical noise into my hifi to counteract most or all of any SQ gain that Qobuz hi res may bring.

From what I’m reading Jim, you have practically talked yourself out of the Roon trial. That’s cool, it’s your choice.
For me, Roon brought nothing in the way of better SQ but the benefits are there in other places.
If you can get the trial working then at least you have the chance to see what it does for you.
I couldn’t decide and in the end it wasn’t my decision to take out a lifetime sub. I umm’d and ahhhh’d for so long my wife bought it for me just to shut me up. :joy:

Weeel…I’m not against it.
Would just like to be able to try it/play with it/hear it without large hassle and cost.
Probably best not to try to test Roon at the same time as I’m currently trying to test Qobuz hi res.

but the cost of lifetime Roon now is equal to 70 months sub…

that’s a long time to breakeven

almost as long as my solar panels, which have still nowhere near ‘washed their face’ after around 7 years…

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finally, one day, while I’m still endlessly dithering over what to do, perhaps a Naim 372 with digital and analogue Burndy circuits and no internal PSU and no screen and no volume knob will come along and I’ll buy one and it’ll have native Qobuz on it and I won’t need Roon after all…

aaaaahhh

By that time Qobuz will be dead … and Roon as well, probably. :joy:

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