I am thinking about buying a Russ Andrews DIN-DIN cable with built-in attenuation (-11dB) to replace the standard Naim cable (ND5XS2 to Nait XS3). The problem I am trying to solve is a balance issue at low volumes.
Anyone used a solution like this? Is it a good and worthwhile idea to look in this direction for a solution?
Yes I use an attenuated DIN IC into my 2nd systems Nait-2 to correct balance and sensitivity at low volume control positions.
The Nait-2 source is from the main system, either NDX or NAT05 and via Supernait.
The volume problem is caused the sources 2V into the Nait‘s 0.75mV input sensitivity forcing listening levels into low volume control positions.
I originally used a Russ Andrews attenuated IC and was happy with it, but replaced it with my own made setup with more attenuation and used bigger and far better spec resistors.
I used the variable volume control on a Chord DAC to attenuate the signal on a Naim streamer when it made the volume pot on the preamp problematic. Yes, it’s a more expensive option than an attenuated cable, but it comes with the bonus of a nice sound uplift.
Yes as long as you use non inductive resistors (these are specialised resistors) in the potential divider I can see no issue in affecting SQ eq.
Ideally make the potential divider resistance (which should match more or less its impedance with non inductive resistors) match the source output impedance.
Thanks for the replies. I will first check if I can get a good cable in The Netherlands. If not, I can order a Russ Andrews cable.
Re: non inductive resistors
The physical sizes of resistors used in DIN plugs for attenuation have to be very small.
They will also be somewhere in the k/ohm regions, very low-power and invariably be non-inductive film types (metal or carbon)
sure - some non inductive resistors are small - in essence the magnetic field setup around the resistor in film, carbon or coils is setup so that there are two paths that cancel each other out and therefore the induction is cancelled out. The same principle that coiling speaker cable doesn’t affect performance through added induction in the signal path.
Sure the reactive element will be small - but small induction amounts can slope off HF audio slightly or smear micro transients slightly depending on the reactive qualities of the source and sink impedances.. which of course may be beneficial overall and what is being sought depending on setup.
An example of a tiny through hole non inductive film resistor, this is around 24kohm
There are surface mount, and axial variants as well.
Non inductive resistors are typically used in small signal circuitry (such as audio and video) where additional reactive elements may be detrimental to performance.
I dont know but I expect Naim use non inductive resistors in some of their amplifier signal path designs, where parasitic reactive elements could affect the audio.
Mainly for the benefit of the OP @whatu1tme2b
As I said in my previous post, after trying the RA attenuated IC I decided to make my own & to use known brand quality resistors.
These are Welwyn RC55y 250mW 0.1% metal film resistors and far too large to fit inside a DIN socket so I made a DIN-DIN with a small connection box midway in the cable.
I made it as an L-Pad, meaning its directional, (my choice)
A T-Pad will make the IC assy non-diectional.
I needed 15dB attenuation & with the Nait 2 input impedance at 47kOhms, this calculated out as R1 = 39.2k & R2 = 10k.
I switched from NAC72/NAP(can’t remember the number but small box) to NAC82/NAP250 and had a really small amount of range in the volume control. (Turn it slightly and it went from nearly silent to blowing the speakers .. I only exaggerate a bit).
Initially I wanted to get an attenuated cable between the pre- and power- amps but was advised against it on this forum.
Eventually ended up getting a number of phono-to-phono attenuators and changed from using the DIN to the phono output of my naim streamer (everything else was phono output). Each set of attenuators was about £50 and I needed 3 sets (streamer, CD, tuner). I won’t name the company but they advertise regularly in HiFi-News.
I am happy with the result.
I ordered a Russ Andrews DIN-DIN interconnect with -14dB attenuation. Let’s see how that works out.
Pbj?
Russ Andrews DIN PBJ Type E, 5 pin 180 to 5 pin 180, -14dB attenuation
I used a PBJ attenuated Din lead for years from my CDS2 to an 82, always sounded fine to me and gave a much better range on the volume control.
Yep, that is also what I am hoping for.
For the sake of the number of threads and by no means trying to steal this thread from OP I figured this could be the right place to ask for advice as well.
In the regard of attenuation: My ND5 XS 2 seems to be quite high on the output in combination with my Lake People G103-s (RCA). Volume level adjustment is cery sensitive on the G103 and over 9 o’clock it’s too loud for my ears using a HD650.
So a hifi retailer suggested I’d put some Rothwell attenuators between the RCA cable and the G103. That would be a better solution in his eyes than turning the volume down in the ND5 XS 2 as that would bring the risk of reducing sound quality too much.
Anyone that has experience with these and can confirm the view of the retailer?
For best performance one should set the device audio output setting to fixed.
If the subsequent analogue audio output setting is too high, then use analogue attenuators.
Thanks! Yes, exactly what that retailer said. By any chance do you have experience with the Rothwell attenuators?
I don’t, but if they use quality low reactance resistors I see no reason why they should not work well.
If the resistors do have a degree of reactance, it will still work, but will filter the frequency of the audio to a proportional extent which may be not really noticeable in certain setups.
Rothwell attenuators have been around for years, I doubt anyone except the manufacturer has any idea what resistor spec is in them and the spec changes over that time.
I hope that the Russ Andrews cable will do the trick. If not, I will have a look at the Rothwell attenuators, but I am not too keen on switching from a DIN interconnect to RCA. I also do n’t know if I have enough room behind the ND5XS2. Anyone know how long these RCA attenuators are?