SBL v ATC SCM40

Nice write up, thanks.

My active SBLs are in storage temporarily and I reverted to Epos ES14s - interestingly the main thing I noticed about the SBLs when I originally got them was maybe a missing octave at the lower end compared to the Epos, though in reality the SBLS could go loud/deep enough and more if you weren’t aware of this.

I also hada projector and used my SBLs as front speakers, with a cheap KEF centre speaker and the ES14s as rears which added extra oomph all round when partying loud or watching films, so I never felt the need for a subwoofer.

For stereo music NAC 72/NAP 250x2/HI-CAPx2, for TV/movies the other channels would be driven by various AV amps the last being a nice Pioneer xxx57 (the model number eludes me SCX maybe).

I’m hoping the SBLs will be ok when I extract them from storage but must admit I’ve been considering an upgrade to great to hear about these speakers, but not really sure what.

One thing I wondered (SBLs were black veneer) with your AV setup (or mine) is whether or not black might be better suited to the experience. At least you have a screen - I’ve always projected onto the wall which surprisingly worked very well, but I also have light walls elsewhere in the rooom and engineered oak boards over a suspended floor, so my room is hardly pitch black!

I compared 40 passives + P1 power amp with actives and agree the actives edge it but I never felt the difference was night and day. Both incredible speakers.

More perceived, more accurate, and better controlled bass on actives.

Not tried the actives but I found a definite increase bottom bass when going from SN2 to P1 with the passives. Now I have two P1’s and it’s even better… before, single P1, it was very good (a step up, IMHO, than the SN2) but it somehow sounds like the soundstage has got more depth with two power amps. It’s like there an extra bass drive unit extending the lower range.

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Of course only extending within the speaker’s capability, as opposed to an inadequate amp achieving that (and the manufacturer’s soec will have been with amplification getting the best out of it).

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Any sign of the 50’s yet Chris? What are they like?

I wish I had the room for 50’s… I’d sell the wife’s car to buy them!!!

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Yes, they’ve safely arrived but are still boxed while we do a bit of decorating. The boxes are huge and were met with disapproval by my wife but having seen the size (and finish) of the actual speakers inside she’s ok…

I took the plunge and ordered a Fraim so by the time that arrives we should be all sorted and I’ll report back with pictures then, can’t wait

If I had the room for the 50’s… I’d be tempted to sell the wife!! (Its a good job she doesn’t look at this forum!)

Chris - Nice one, I look forward to seeing some pictures and hearing your initial impressions.

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I bought a pair of (brilliant) SD Acoustics SD1’s some years ago…

As the delivery chaps from Grahams were carrying one of the boxes into my living room my wife said “There better be two in there…”

Not only was there only one but they had to stand a metre out into the room, so we’re not unobtrusive.

They only lasted a year or so before they were changed and I was shunted into the dining room. Wish I still had them, great speakers.

Tony

I’m already in the dining room so may just have a chance of getting away with this one…

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I thought you chaps might appreciate an update on the decision I came to regarding the ATC’s and of course some photos!

After the ATC went back and I plugged the SBL back in both my wife and I felt the system took a huge step backwards in terms of bandwidth, resolution, clarity and scale - so much so we resolved to purchase the ATC’s. We opted for white in the end and the passive model for several reasons:

  1. Cost - I’ve just added an NDX and upgraded from NAC102-very late NAC82 with POTS 8 and the difference between active and passive SCM40 amounts to around £3000.
  2. I have used Naim amps since 1988 and love their sound and have a huge amount of faith in Naim gear so I wasn’t particularly keen to ditch my allegiance just yet.
  3. I may at some point wish to make a return to hifi-reviewing and active speakers would add complexity to switching gear in and out of my system.

The ATC SCM40 and C3C center channel turned up around a week ago courtesy of TNT - all 109Kg of them!!

They are beautifully packed and wrapped and well protected for transit! The ATC logo on the cloth covers is a nice touch too.

The SBL’s are heavy but the SCM40 are another level again and so I left the spikes off to enable me to move them around more easily in pursuit of the optimum position.

The finish is flawless and my fears about the white being a bit much in the room were unfounded.

It’s hard not to be somewhat in awe of that legendary midrange dome driver and their engineering and studio pedigree.

The metallic grilles are wonderfully engineered and magnetically attach to the cabinet which is a very neat engineering solution and avoids the need for unsightly mounting hardware.

The initial positioning was with hindsight too close (10 inches) from the rear wall with around 15 degrees toe in. The center channel has temporarily been placed on top of my Marshall guitar cabinet while I wait to take delivery of the new white center channel stand from ‘Custom Design’ the UK based stand manufacturer. The plan then is to get rid of the Laney keyboard amp and put the center channel on its stand centrally with the Marshall 2x12 and amp on one side and the Vox AC15 on the other.

I have spent the first few days with the speakers pulling them out into the room around 12 inches and adjusting toe in. This has eliminated the subtle bass bloom I was getting before. Having spent a few days moving them subtly around I have now fitted the spikes and levelled them using a gyro stabilised laser level.

Since acquiring them I have been listening to so much music - just exploring recordings I thought I knew well and hearing them with more fidelity than I have experienced before. The transparency and detail resolution of the SCM40 is jaw dropping! I just played ‘The verb to do’ by Del Amitri and the heavily accented playing on acoustic guitar was laid bare and highlighted to a far greater degree than I have ever experienced before on any other speaker. It’s the way the ATC reveal nuances of performance like this that is so addictive. They reveal the architecture of music and communicate it incredibly effectively so you really feel how artists perform their music and how the engineers have recorded it. They do all this though without upsetting the cohesiveness of the performance or disrupting the emotional feel of the piece. Put simply you just feel a step nearer to the performance than you ever thought possible.

I mentioned earlier that the ATC seem to offer a far more lifelike scale to instruments than the SBL, the cello underpinning to my favourite Four Seasons recording by the Academy of Ancient Music under Christopher Hogwood (and indeed the whole orchestra) is rendered with near lifelike scale. The feeling of being in a large acoustic space with life-sized instruments is beautifully recreated.

The nice thing is that while the SCM40 seem unerringly accurate and true to life they don’t render poor recordings unlistenable - indeed their more pronounced bass helps to fill out thin sounding recordings like for example much of U2’s output or tracks by REO Speedwagon. Feed the system well recorded stuff though and the quality of the reproduction is the stuff of dreams! The system (aided by the new NAC82) is now sounding vastly better than it did before. I certainly haven’t listened to this much music since my student days and it’s certainly a system which never ever disappints and frequently astonishes the listener.

One thing I have observed is that these speakers like a bit of power, they can do background music of course, but they really open up and fill the room with beautiful music when given just a little more volume. They don’t need to be played loud, but solo piano for example certainly sounds best when it approximates the SPL that a live piano would create in the room.

So that’s my update for now. I have a plumber coming later in the week to remove the radiator behind the right hand speaker and there will be some re-jigging once the center speaker stand arrives. I also need to work on the sound balance of the system when used as a 7.1 setup for cinema, but that’s a work in progress!

Jonathan

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Nice - congratulations on the upgrade! I think they look really good in white too. I heard these speakers at a recent Rega event for the first time and I was really impressed.

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Congratulations on a lovely system. I heard the ATC SCM40’s at HiFi show and really impressed me (in a way I was smitten). I could not help but notice your guitar amps. Do you play rhythm, lead or bass guitar. If you play lead guitar do you play any Ritchie Blackmore’s solos (I know a totally random question but worth a try)?. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Congrats… I have loved ATC speakers even before I started loving Naim. I really like the standmounts SCM12s, 11s, 20s and 19s…
in my room those cabs are the optimum size and is good down to 30Hz (as measured) without much fall off… and it’s all tuneful, tight and punchy. I love their legendary combined mid/bass dome driver on those cabs…

I am sure the 40s will sounds great with you, they are just too much in my room… the new 40s have a hugely improved crossover and so far more passive friendly than earlier incarnations.
I do wander and try other speakers from time to time, and yes some or more detailed, some are better at micro transients etc… but I always come back to ATC. There is something right and natural to their sound… and the new in house tweeter drivers can now do choral and finer orchestral really well too… with no etching or choral sibilence you hear with some other designs.
Yes the new in house tweeter drivers are far more neutral on bad recordings… if it’s good music it’s all enjoyable, no matter how recorded or mastered.

I know it’s a cliche, but crank up The Wall… it’s fantastic and you can hear / enjoy the playing and mastering techniques… as well as feel the energy… including you laddie behind the bike shed. My musician friends love them…
Enjoy.

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Gandalf,

I’m very much a beginner but my daughter plays too hence the two amps! I expect Richie Blackmore solos are well beyond me at present and I play a mixture of lead and rhythm. I’ve had some lessons, done some youtube tutorials, bought some books but mostly doss around on Rocksmith just jamming around to songs!

One thing good hifi has made me though is very critical of the sound of my setup so even as a relative beginner I have ended up buying pretty nice amps and guitars which frankly are too good for my current abilities but I hope I will ‘grow into’ them!

J

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Congratulations Jonathan, and what an enjoyable thread.

I have no thoughts for you, other than thanks for sharing your ATC journey and my appreciation for such well written and thoughtful posts, a joy to read.

Maybe, I should get out a bit more!

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NigelB, Thanks so much - glad you are enjoying the thread! It’s certainly been a very interesting journey - not least because the system remained static for so long and due to budget constraints I am seeking the biggest leap in sound quality possible for a relatively modest outlay. It’s easy to make considerable gains if you can spend £10-£20k on an upgrade but at the £5k level it can be more of a challenge. I honestly think that for the first time in my life my home system is so enjoyable that it’s up there with some of the best I have heard - at least in terms of involvement and ability to just enjoy the music.

I suspect that many of us have a sound in our head that we are striving for when considering music replay and a level of reproduction or fidelity we have wanted to get to all our lives. I played ‘diamonds on the soles of her shoes’ from the Graceland album tonight and have never heard it sound better, in fact it sounded so fantastic that I was genuinely floored by it. It’s not the subtle change of adding a hicap or even dare I say it upgrading a pre-amp, but a whole different ball game in terms of bandwidth, detail, emotional impact and dynamics.

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Jonathan,

You are quite right in identifying the laws of diminishing returns, which can bite hard as you go up the Naim hierarchy. You mention pre amps, but from first hand experience I believe the pre is the beating heart and soul of any multi-box Naim system. Indeed you have witnessed the leap in SQ going from the 102 to the 82. What you are hearing is, as I am sure you realise, a combination of the changes you have made.

I am still coming to terms with the sheer transparency and honesty of a 552, but we are getting into silly money territory, even though I have gone for a pre-loved, non-DR example. But still only around £5k after I factor in the trade in on my 252/SuperCapDR. Possibly the most rewarding £5k I have spent, although the memory does play tricks on you when you get to my age!

But you appear to have struck gold in your recent changes and I must say I will definitely explore the world of ATC when it comes time to look at speakers. Getting such an uplift in performance from a £5k spend is a great achievement.

I like how you select specific artists and tracks to make your points, it brings everything to life. You quoted a Corrs track that I subsequently listened to on Tidal and realised it was a song covered on a Mary Black album I own, which I hadn’t listened to for a long time. I was then prompted to listen to that track to check I wasn’t imagining it and ended up listening to the whole album, which was a revelation, as I don’t think I have heard it since I acquired my 552.

It is these kind of experiences that make this hobby of ours so interesting and rewarding, and what makes this fine forum such a great place to visit.

Enjoy your ‘new’ system.

I will get out more though, I promise!

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At the recent Signals Statement amps comparison with 552/500. What struck me was how good the 552 is, yes the S1 is better, but £30 k extra is a lot of money.

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NigelB,

Enjoy that 552 - that’s an incredible price for an absolutely stunning pre-amp! Who needs to go out at all when you have a system like that! I actually lived with a 552 for about 3 months when I reviewed it for HFN - can you imagine how hard it was to go back to my 102 after that?!! Those cruel people at naim took away the loaned CDS3 and SL2’s too ;-)) I vividly recall listening to ‘a Salty dog’ by Procol Harum on the 552 and marvelling at the way low level detail in the mix (a clanging bell on a boat masthead) was revealed more clearly than ever before due to the incredibly low noise floor and supreme detail retrieval. Gary Brooker’s soulful voice sounded more lifelike than I have heard it before or since.

As you say one of the delights of this forum is discovering new music and discussing people’s impressions of equipment and sound. It’s always been a very friendly and informed place for debate and long may it remain so.

Enjoy the music!

Jonathan

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