Secondhand prices

The selling/purchase price of new and second hand equipment is irreverent. The important factor is the cost of ownership.

You buy a second hand amp for £1000. If, in 5 years time its value is £750, cost of ownership is £50 per year.

You buy a second hand amp for £1200. If in 5 years time its value is £950, cost of ownership is £50 per year.

With regards to servicing. If you have an amp serviced, that will increase the value of the amp. So the actual cost will be the difference between service cost and increase in value.

With regards to having a service done by a non approved service engineer, this will most likely reduce its value, not increase it.

Not sure this is true… But, IMO, servicing done by Naim, or one of their approved agents, is the best option to retain the value of an item.

YMMV, etc…

That’s what I said.

I think you’re agreeing with me.:grinning:

It’s not just Naim. When I ordered my Luxman amp I waited 6 months and on day one of that, the second hand price for the same amp was 20% more than retail! It just kept climbing in that time.

People are terrible at waiting and apparently second hand prices reflect their strong desire to avoid doing so.

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I’ve always taken a long game to buying second hand which requires some patience. Generally I avoid second hand kit that is older than 3 years and I’ve been lucky to find kit that is only a couple years old and at a good discount from retail.

I’ve never understood the whinging about service costs. My wife’s car cost less than my 2nd hand purchased Active Naim hifi & its cost me about £2k to have 11 boxes serviced. That works out at approx £200 per year (10 years servicing). The car costs more than that to service each year.
And which gives me more enjoyment?
As @Fatcat says its the total cost of ownership that’s important.

The service costs have tended to be reasonable over the years, however there were significant price hikes last year, especially as old servicing would include a repair component as well, but these are now separate.

It’s the rather opaque nature of the costs which frustrates me - there is no official price list for the public AFAIK, but dealers have a recommended price list and can decide to charge as they see fit.

My point overall is that if servicing is now seen as potentially worse value for money, then coupled with higher secondhand prices if a service on a used item may be needed within a few years, I’d potentially hold out and just buy new when I could.

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I am with @Alley_Cat on this. The recent revisions to the Naim Salisbury Servicing and Repair costs, were - excessive. Only hard commercialism can explain this.

Just my view… Interwbzzz… YMMV, etc.

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The above points are very logical - in consistent market conditions. However, I strongly suspect we are currently experiencing very abnormal market conditions. The restriction on the availability of essential components has both caused an increase in cost and a decrease in the number of products available for purchase. In the motor industry I recently read that real world car prices have increased by circa 20-25% due to a combination of increased retail prices and removal of discount incentives. Not only have the prices shot up but the dealers have no stock and people’s patience pushes them to used products, the values of which are being artificially/ temporarily inflated. I suspect similar drivers are affecting several sectors including the naim products.

From the above waffle, the point I am trying to make is that I suspect the inflated pre-owned prices currently being charged for hi-fi, cars, etc, etc will at some point in the future face a correction. The correction taking the form of additional ‘abnormal’ depreciation. Arguably, if you aren’t going to trade in / change the hi-fi/ car/ other components in future (how many of us would this apply to?!!), the current blip is not so relevant however, for most of us, buying pre-owned now will bring with it additional depreciation when the market sorts out the current supply issues. It is however, a good time to sell!!

Peter

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I wonder how Naim’s servicing charges compare to the costs of replacing the valves in tube amps over 10 years?

That, AFAIK, has been the case for many years.

Still don’t get the “issue” - that’s your choice - to service or not to service. As is selling your Naim kit at good values now & buying something else - or not. Value for money is dependant on how much one has & how one wants to spend it. Its got nothing to do with the actual number.

Sorry, what exactly is “hard commercialism”? Naim is a business & expects to make a profit.
When was the last time servicing costs were increased? It may be that they were running at breakeven or possibly a loss & the recent global problems forced the change.

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I agree. The current trading conditions are exceptional for all businesses & probably only to get worse.
I was in the local Porsche dealership yesterday & was told they had bought the “pre-loved” 911 Targa behind me for £10k over book because if you want one new it’s a 3 year wait list. The Targa is already sold.

Exactly what the Porsche sales guy said.

That isn’t quite true, some kit such as the regulated amps need a service more frequently if you are not to damage your speakers or listen to a heavily distorted sound.
For the non-regulated kit the SQ falls off but at a more linear rate than the regulated amps.
If you want to maintain as new SQ then servicing is a must.

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I agree that SQ will suffer - but again that’s a choice for the owner - suffer poor SQ or service. Naim don’t say you MUST - they merely recommend an interval.

If we’re using that logic then almost anything is optional.:thinking:
Save loads on car servicing - don’t have it done.:slightly_smiling_face:

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Very expensive, I only had to start replacing valves after 20 plus years. EAR estimate in thousands of hours, I wore out the volume pot and selector switch before valves measured out of spec.

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Valve amps are “an itch I’ve been wanting to scratch” for many years.

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VAT also has a big impact on new items, but not on used. So ‘ex-demo’ at a 20% discount is actually being sold at normal retail price.

The way to look at it is that everyone is charging more for services. Gas, electricity, fuel prices have gone up. Cost of diesel and petrol has gone up. Components will be more difficult to get hold of. Inflation has gone up, interest rates have gone up. So therefore service costs for Naim will go up significantly as all these factors increase costs and overheads.

I am a self employed builder and my rates have increased significantly over the last few years. That is how it is. The increase rates have to be passed over to the customer.

There is no other way of doing it.

Darran at Class A is very reasonable for servicing costs vs Naim.

If buying 2nd hand eBay have increased seller costs dramatically. So again used prices have gone up.

Used prices on vehicles have gone up significantly. A used car or van holds its value alot more which can put sellers in a strong position.

Inflation and interest rates are rising and will continue to do so the way things are going.

So new and used prices will go up. That’s the market right now!

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