Separate DAC and streamer or both in one unit + powersupply and HiFi-rack

Streaming Audio
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Continuing the discussion from NDX2 and NSS333:

Hi, great community,

I would like your thoughts on choosing the right streamer, powersupply and DAC, considering listening-fatigue and whether separating each function in one box or not.

My goal here is just to be as attracted as possible to enjoy any kind of music at home and do this as long as possible.

Of course, like everything else, for me, it’s all about what you hear and prefer, but at the same time I find it interesting to dig into the possibilities any combination will offer.

Ryder35s comment in the thread about comparing NDX2 vs NSS333 made me think about the option of having separating the streamer and the DAC, versus having both functions in one box.

A short background story:
1,5 years ago, my dealer here in Berlin lent me the Auralic Aries G2.1 and I used it with my Naim DAC from 2012, and had a listen on an old 252/SC2 and a newer 250DR + my monitor audio gold GX 200 speakers, also from 2012. It absolutely blew my mind. For me back then, it was a perfect combination of detail, high resolution and at the same time the beautiful softness of the Naim classic-series. However, listening-fatigue was not something I thought about back then, I just considered the immediate impression. Thinking back now, I’m not sure, whether the Auralic on a longer term would be to analytical and detailed for me, and that I maybe would rather be better off with only Naim-products in order to be able to listen for longer periods.

Now, I’m streaming with a PC with Audirvāna Studio, connected to the Naim DAC with haunta HiFace and a high quality Naim BNC-cable. I’m also taking into consideration my HiFi-Rack, a Creactive Audio 1, which I could upgrade to the Naim Fraim- I believe that would put my whole system on a whole new level of detail. (Please let me know if you disagree)

So I have the option to buy a separate streamer, instance the Auralic Aries G2.x + maybe later a powersupply for the DAC, or I sell my DAC and buy an NDX2/NSS333, or go all inn in Auralic on the Vega+Aries. Basically, I absolutely love the Naim Classic-sound and want this to be the main message in my system. The new classic-series, for me, at the moment sounds too bright and too slick in a way. The classic-series sound warmer and more organic to me.

What I really have discovered after having gotten my beautiful set up of 252/SC DR/250DR is how much longer I now can enjoy music without getting fatigue. It is as if the Naim-boxes invite me to sit for another 10 minutes and another, and another, etc. This was the same experience. I had back in 2012 when I got my first Naim-gear, the DAC.

There are lots of options: Streamer/DAC/powersupply/Rack. What are your thoughts or your experiences? Have you gone through the same processes? I’m not so much interested in any technical detail, but rather what do you have experienced in terms of how attracted you are to sit down and listen to music with different combinations of setups. Looking forward to read and thank you so much in advance.

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You might want to look elsewhere unless heavily discounted.

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Regarding your primary question in the thread title, the DAC is the key component of a digital source, so maximising quality there makes every sense, while keeping streaming/rendering part separate minimises cost of any future hardware changes that might be needed to keep up with online streaming requirements if you use those. You have only to look at thd current Auralic thread (ex-parrot) to see the potential issues with the streaming front end if you stream online, it being good to separate your DAC from that, especially if is s good one.

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I would stick with your system but add an XPS or 555PS, DR…… will greatly improve your DAC

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With the ndac, the quality of the device feeding the Ndac is more important than the power supply. Good quality transport/Ndac/No power supply is better than poor quality transport/ndac/power supply.

I use a Primare NP5 Mk2 streaming bridge to feed my Ndac. It’s detailed, refined and definitely isn’t fatiguing. It seems to be a good match for all Naim dacs.

It’s a bargain at £500 plus £100 for ifi power supply.

People under estimate the importance of a streaming bridge when it comes sound signature.

I posted the following on thread a few weeks ago discussing streaming transports for the NDS, which is very similar to the nDac.


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Very interesting indeed, thank you so much for your input. What are your thoughts on the software for the Primare NP5 Mk2?

I also tested using an XPS with my Naim DAC and I wasn’t very impressed. The sound got broader and kind of sweeter or a bit more mild, but it didn’t make such a big difference to me as much as putting a decent streaming bridge in front of it.

I’ve read that in a digital source, the streamer makes out roughly 30% and the DAC maybe 70% of the overall sound quality. This of course isn’t to be taken too seriously, I think. The ears decide.

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So none of you would recommend me to exchange my DAC with and NDX2?

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The app is pretty basic. It allows me to search and play music from a Nas, Qobuz, Tidal and Spotify, but that’s all I need.
Probably not suitable for people who are OCD or want to search what the bassist ate for breakfast on the morning of the recording, while listening to the music.
It doesn’t do Tidal or Qobuz Connect, but it does do Spotify Connect.

I owned an ndac in 2011. Used with a poor quality transport adding an XPS didn’t make much difference. I sold the ndac because it was no where near as good as the CDS2 I also owned at the time.

With regards to the ratio, that will probably vary from dac to dac. Most dacs won’t be as sensitive to the quality of streamers as the Ndac. But without a good quality streamer you won’t hear how good the ndac actually is.

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Next year the streaming board in the NDX2 will be 10 years old. Which is old when you’re talking about streaming boards. :flushed_face:

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Beware of simple hierarchical claims that product A is better than product B. These are very often just opinions based on personal preferences, and what works well for you, your room acoustics and your speakers may be different to anyone else’s findings. Your NDAC is a good example: some prefer NDAC/555PS to NDS/555. I would say that they have a similar performance level, but different characters, and you can only tell which is best for you by listening.

As for the power supply or DAC upgrade options, Naim say that putting the streamer in the same box as the DAC is absolutely the best design. Personally I prefer to use a separate DAC, and fortunately all Naim streamers have an SPDIF output to accommodate this. The only power supply upgrade I’ve heard that really moves the performance of a Naim streamer on significantly is the 555, and for that sort of cash you can buy a very wide selection of DACs to suit your tastes.
If you want to keep it Naim, my choice would be an ND5XS2 into your NDAC with a 555PS (preferably the non-DR version) as long as you don’t mind a 3 box source and you have enough rack space to set them up properly.
The NDX2 is not, for me, in the same league as the NDAC, at least if used standalone or with an XPS. With a 555PS it could be a different matter but it’s a combination I haven’t heard.

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For me, if i had an N dac, then i wouldn’t look at other naim products that they have right now for a real inpovement as far as sound goes, and certainly not the NDS, or ND555, maybe the newer range with the newer sound?
Yes you will get a nice screen if you went with say the nd555, but that’s about it for the very large difference in price, plus if you want a big screen go get the hifi rose streamer and add it to the N dac. Much bigger, better screen, and a dedicated streamer, plus much cheaper. Or just use the big screen in your hand that you can see much easier, that you are using to control the streamer.
I have heard the N dac many times, and it’s a lovely dac, you will need to spend a few quid to get something sonically better and not just different.
But having a separate dac is really the best way to do things, especially looking at certain things that have gone on lately.

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They also said the old inexpensive power chords used in the 80s couldn’t be bettered. Until they discovered there was money to be made selling expensive power chords. :thinking:

Ditto - Speaker cable.

Ditto - Speaker interconnects.

Ditto – 317 voltage regulators

Streaming boards used in current Naim streamers are pretty basic, when used as a bridge and they are not far off being 10 years old.

It’s about time they moved into the 20s and produced a good quality modern streaming bridge. :grin:

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What is it that you don’t like about the current streaming board? They seem to perform well to me regardless of whether you use the digital or analogue out, although I would almost certainly be tempted by a streaming transport if they were to make one.

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After reading all the valuable responses in here and also checking out other threads, it’s scared to me. How many options there are to choose from and also that my Naim DAC from 2012 is a very good option to keep. It seems overkill to me to spend maybe €10,000 on a power source for this (555PS), but, the ears decide. At the same time, I can get a lot of good DACs and streamers for that amount.

Another goal I didn’t mention here is that, when I upgrade, I want any upgrade to be on the same level as my 252/SC DR/250DR. That goes also for the HiFi-rack, cables, vinyl-source and boxes.

At the moment I’m actually not sure where to start. I guess when I take enough time in the research and to take any opportunities to demo any equipment, I’ll get closer to the right way.

Another option I’m considering it’s just to leave both the digital and the analog source for now and to start by getting enough Naim Fraim-shelves + get a wall-shelf for my record player. I believe that could also improve the overall sound a lot and give me another reference-point when choosing proper sources and boxes in the future.

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If you own a Naim streamer, using the single (coaxial) digital output is a good option.

But buying one specifically to use as a streaming bridge, doesn’t make sense IMO.

It will only output native (I believe), only coax, is nearly 10 years old.

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Check out the Nagra streamer. It could be the answer.

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Buying a naim dac/streamer all in one, just then to only use the streaming board, really is rather silly and a complete waste of money doing so.
The streaming board used in the second generation and onwards are getting on, but they are a good stable streaming board, used my many manufacturers. Yes the newer streaming board from StreamUnlimited does offer more, but then the burrbrown dac chips used by naim can’t take advantage of it anyway i believe, as most of the advantage is from high rates it can stream, like DSD 256 and higher. I don’t think the burrbrown chips can even do DSD native, it has to convert it, so little point in having the newer streaming board, as far as i can see.

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On cost grounds, one problem is that separation rather easily leads to duplication. Although now out of consideration the Auralic Aries/Vega combination is a case in point. The Vega has a built-in streamer, which becomes redundant if used with an Aries. It also has a rather good Class A preamp and resistor ladder volume control, which are bypassed if used with a separate pre or integrated amp. And there are two expensive boxes housing the electronics. All of this pushes up the price. Whether that is justified by improved SQ or the ability to change one of the components is surely a matter of personal preference.

Although personally I’ve gone down the one-box route I don’t think there’s an answer to the single vs multiple boxes question that’s right for everyone.

Roger

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People have the choice.

I use a ndac, it only has spdif input (optical and coax).

I use an NP5 streaming bridge, it only has spdif output (optical and coax). So no redundancy there.
Apart from the fact I can only use either optical or coax. :blush:

All the costs go towards providing a spdif output, which is the only thing I can use.

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