Should I be using DIN instead?

I have actually done so, and didn’t hear a difference.

But I wasn’t expecting there to be, so perhaps it was confirmation bias? :wink:

Christ…this is painful.

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Are we at Root Canal level yet…? Must be close… :expressionless:

The only valid reasons in my opinion of DIN being better than phono for a stereo pair (for audio frequencies) is that there are two less contact connections with DIN over phono. Contact connections are the weak point in any interconnect, although on phono there are some high end designs that mitigate this a little. Stereo DIN also provides a single common return for both channels, which is advantageous for unbalanced stereo connections, further the return can be separated from ground which can be advantageous to reduce noise.

On stereo phono to DIN there would be one less contact connection.

However, I think the term from @Richard.Dane is key, ‘all things being equal’, you may find cable differences having more profound impacts to performance. So for the same cable type, stereo pair audio DIN is usually preferable to phono.

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I dont think, back in the day, RCAs were ever meant for HQ audio signals.

In the 1930s when the phono connector was invented by RCA I don’t think there was a concept of Hi-Fi as we have today, and it was designed as low cost phonograph audio connector to connect to their amplifiers. Quality audio connectors were sometimes large Bakelite affairs often resembling an over sized XLR connector … made by companies like Philips and Leslie … I have a few as curios.
It’s fair to say with phono although the dimensions remain, there have been many variants over the decades that improve on the original 40s design to provide better performance.

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RCA had a wireless radio in 1940 ish with amp and speakers built in. Then they released an add on turntable which also had its own amp and speakers. The first use of the RCA connector was simply a DC power linkage from the wireless base unit to the turntable which didn’t have a mains transformer. No audio signal passed between them. I say that again, the RCA connector was designed for DC current initially. IIRC, only 2 or 3 generations of their wireless used this and thereafter, the connector got comandeered for use for audio and later video and digital.

DIN5, like XLR was conceived for analogue audio from day one.

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I contacted flashback today as I had heard David was unwell. His wife, Lyn, said he is in hospital so obviously not making any cables just now. Not sure how long to expect that to continue I’m afraid but no point in ordering from them just now.

Err you are aware that many cables use a screen that are commoned at one end right?

That makes those cables mechanically directional in construction as the arrow for a screened cable generally points to the amp end as this is where most cable manufacturers expect signal earth.

As for non screened directional cables being Snakeoil, I’m not sure what the maker has to gain from this. You don’t pay more for an arrow. Copper crystals do align in the direction they are spun out. That can be seen up close with the right equipment. In fact, the maker could save money by not printing the arrow.

But not charge as much…

I am not sure that is right… from the notes I have it was always designed to carry audio signals and initially from a phonograph to an RCA radio… very early on as a service tool, and then a consumer option. Images of early RCA radios I have show this too as well as the early marketing material for certain RCA radios. Later usage was adapted to carry DC power What is your source of info?

The 1939 RCA MODEL 45EM radio had a phono connection at the rear marked as Aux … and consumers were encouraged to connect an RCA phonograph.

There was a documentary series about the origins of ubiquitous engineering devices and one was dedicated to the humble RCA connector. Even Naim have gone on record in a recent promo saying RCA was originally a DC power connector.

Might be an urban myth… certainly can’t see any evidence to back it up, not from RCA at least.

I simply don’t believe 30 minutes of air time and a fake RCA wireless and turntable set was cooked up to satisfy a myth.

I can imagine how after dropping a product line, aspects were resubmitted for alternative usage patents - but that wasn’t mentioned.

According to Wikipedia … & yes I know they don’t always get it right
RCA … originally created to allow the connection of a phonograph turntable to a radio receiver, using the radio as an amplifier.
It then goes on to say it has been adopted for uses other than originally intended, including as a DC power connector … then goes on to list other applications & also mentions poor impedance matching … another reason why Naim like DIN

Yeah I’m familiar with the Wikipedia entry. But the docu specifically mentioned it would be another year before RCA would stop duplicating amplifiers and speakers in the add on phonograph and repurpose the connector for audio.

Look, I can’t prove the docu is true. I wasn’t alive in 1940 and certainly never worked for RCA. But I have zero reason to think something soooo mundane would be made up. It’s a connector. Not the Roswell incident.

Well I have a referenced a 1939 RCA radio … the 45EM which had an aux input which was an RCA phono socket… for RCA this was important… they were part of the revitalising of the consumer phonograph business in the US, and enabling phono to sound as good and ‘rich’ as many people’s radios was a strong selling point… the rca phono plug socket was part of this success towards the end of the 30s allowing the easy connection (without needing a dealer) of cheap record players into quality radios… and allowed the cheap record players to sound as good as the radio, and marketed as turning the radio into a Victrola (an acoustic RCA phonograph). The original RCA DUO phonograph in the early 30s designed to be added to radios did predate the connector I think… but looking to see the first RCA model that did use the RCA phono… unless it was the 45EM in 1939.

The key drawbacks for phono sockets and plugs is that there quite high tolerance of dimensions allowing oxidation and capacitive issues… but later adaptations of the original RCA plug have mitigated this.
With modern transistor equipment at audio frequencies, I very much doubt these impedance mis matches etc don’t count for much if anything as interconnects and audio cables are not marketed as having specific characteristic impedances… but different for video frequencies, which is a common use for RCA connectors, and here the CI is often 75 ohms.

My flashbackcables RCA to DIN cable arrived today. Being the inquisitive type, I wanted to check the soldering and lo and behold there are two tiny resistors between hot and the tip and hot and the shell. Is that normal??

Looks like an attenuated lead, designed to reduce the signal level into the amplifier - did you specify that when ordering?