Not difficult Bevo. Hundreds of high end modern decks will outperform easily the Klimax :
Techdas
Continuum Caliburn
Walker Proscenium
Clearaudio Statement
Vyger Atlantis
Kuzma XL
Avid Acutus
Transrotor top ones
Top VPI
Technics 100r
Kronos
Origin Live Voyager
…so many. And those 3 on the picture ( CS port, Saska two, wave kinetics)
Have you actually heard these tables compared to a Linn Klimax LP12? I have heard all but the Vyger, Transrotor, Caliburn, Cs port and the Saskia. IMO, the Linn Klimax sounds better than Kuzma, the Top VPI ( I presume you mean the Direct Drive model), the Technics 100R and the Origin Live Voyager. Some would prefer the Linn to the Tech Das ( depending on model). One thing though of the Linn Klimax–it is far less expensive than the other tables and since it can better a few of them, it maybe should be considered a bargain??
Heresy I know…I wonder if I am alone in absolutely excluding consideration of anything that looks as if we’re designed and manufactured in a shipyard, or even a part for a next generation spacestation. For me simple elegance or organic design are a prerequisite. I appreciate that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and that the boundaries between these concepts are blurred. For me, the domestic environment has to be conducive to happy listening. No offence whatsoever is intended towards anyone who has different views.
Good point but I am torn in that as an ex engineer, a former collector of O gauge tinplate trains, and sadly a person who thinks the most beautiful object in the world is a beam engine, I just love the steam punk look. On the other hand the Rega P8 is tres elegant and form follows function, as it should.
P8 for me with the current Naim kit for the livng area.
I agree that function should take precedence over form, and also that function can imply form…its just that I would not want something which I considered garish in my environment. Steam trains, beam engines are fascinating, both in function and in form…not garish at all. But not in our lounge.
Haha. Don’t know to be fair. I trialled it against a Rega P/ RP 8 three years ago.
It is a great sounding player. It has the Michell uprated speed controller and feeds into Trichord Diablo phono stage.
Plenty of pace and tone. The bass is very good and clear. No muddyness here. And of course it looks great.
I’m guessing new to him then? You should really compare against the modern Technics, different beast alltogether. I have only heard more entry level LP12 myself, so can’t compare against top spec.
Have not heard all. Have compared Rp10/ Top Rega phono/ Lyra Kleos vs Linn Klimax : for me both were at the same level, but different.
I heard Kuzma XL, Spiral Groove, Avid Acutus, Clearaudio Statement : for me they were completely in another league.
Some here have better than Klimax lp12 and have testified .
Anyway don’t want to create a new thread, just responding to one member.
Some of these decks are more than 50 k, even 100k. But Spiral Groove ( don’t remember which one), Kuzma XL, and Avid Acutus are on the lp12 level price.
I heard all these decks during 2 years and finally bought an ex demo SME 20/2 at that time.
Today I enjoy an Rp10. It’s enough for my needs.
There are many of them. FR lists some, but there are many others (you could add the various SMEs for example).
I only took objection to the statement that the LP 12 currently sits at the top of LP reproduction. I agree that it still gives a hugely enjoyable reproduction (as many on this forum have stated) and is currently pretty decent value for money, but it is no longer at the top. Even back in 1981, the Oracle Delphi was probably better (at a higher price that I couldn’t afford so didn’t want to listen too closely).
Well, I would love to see the look on your face if the retailer would have explained to you that the internet user is totally right and that you’d better go one door further and buy a competing product.
Fakenews and lies are not only spread by this very special character from the US with the yellow quiff - it’s pretty widespread on the internet.
I´d rather doubt that from a technical perspective. But I agree that all those decks sound different and some sound profile might fit better to ones preferences than the other.
If it comes to my personal preferences and having heard the Continuum, some top of the line Clearaudios and Transrotors as well as some of the ones you put on the list and many others over the years, I´ve to confess that I rate a Rega P8 over a Transrotor Tourbillion for instance. But I also rate a LP12 over a P8 and a Denon DP-80, Technics SP-15 or SP-10 MK IIa over a LP12. On other hand I would rate a Platine Verdier over an LP12 too and an EMT 930 over a Garrard 401 as well as over any Transrotor and the Garrard over a Rega P8.
I know pretty inconsistent rating but that´s the immanent crux with all ratings based on individual preferences and personal taste.
You have heard the Continuum and not found it in a completely different league ?
From a technical aspect, if you look at something like the Kronos Sparta, it’s so much better engineered vs an lp12 that’s shocking , for a similar price ( Sparta 0,5)
Either I have misunderstood your post or you have misunderstood mine. I am not ‘worried’ about my LP12.
What I was trying to say is that since buying my Linn in 1981 it has always given me complete satisfaction when it comes to sound quality. Each official upgrade has increased this sound quality.
This has meant that I have never had the urge/desire to ‘upgrade’ my turntable (other than the various Linn upgrades) & listen to any other turntables for a comparison. In fact I don’t actually recall hearing another turntable in my dealers systems over the years. As I said in another post, in all my dealers musical events I have attended, since I retired 5 years ago, only two have featured systems with turntables in them. Both were LP12s, not because he felt they were the best (he prefers Rega) but because they happened to be set up at the time & he felt that any sound differences between the Linn & his preferred Rega, were purely subjective.
This does not mean I am convinced the LP12 is the best sounding turntable of them all. I have never heard anything else. It simply means it does sound wonderful to me, & has always has, to the extent I have never desired anything ‘better’.
Please forgive me if I have totally misunderstood your post.
The way I look at it is that if I tried to consider every variable when trying to buy the best possible turntable/ arm/cartridge, I would:-
1 never make a purchase for fear of not auditioning the one product which is better than the one I was going to buy.
2 drive myself mad, literally, worrying that I had overlook something in the auditioning process that I would only realise when it was too late.
3 spend all my time auditioning equipment rather than listening to music, which should be the only point of the exercise.
As I have said on several other replies, whether my LP12 is the best turntable or not matters not a jot to me. It has sounded great to me for the past 39 years, continues to do so & enables me to listen to music without thinking about the equipment at all.
Sorry, that´s a guess at first glance. As long as you didn´t buy one, put it in pieces and had a closer look and analysis in details you most likely are just overwhelmed by the sight, you see a lot more material than on others. You see clippings, springs, screws etc. and you most probably start thinking that this must be the last word of wisdom and therefore better than anything else. So this is an understandable psychological reaction. And it´s also a matter of personal taste and individual combination/ guessing like heavy = must sound more solid, bigger = must be better, much more expensive = must be much better …
You´re totally right. I´ve heard the Continuum and it sounded very good and tempting, but I never ever would rate it into a higher class than any other turntable that costs over 2,5k. All of them are playing at more or less an identical technical (quality) level. Of course they are sounding differently but neither better nor worse than any of the others.
By the way, there is hardly nothing that´s more simple to build than a belt drive as it´s done by todays manufacturers. So this is definitely not the high school of mechanical engineering or the end of the flagpole when it comes to what is technically feasible. Hardly none of todays manufacturers solves the immanent problems (such as Elongation slip) of this type of motor units.
And if you would like to ask me about my top of the line favorites, that would be a purely technically driven ranking and there would be only a single modern and belt drive unit in that list: