@Blacknote@Mike_S very interesting your considerations, I keep the advice well. I really appreciate the Totem sound and perhaps for me it is preferable to switch for the Forests, which while not reaching the level of the Signatures are at any rate a step ahead of the SkyTower. Focal Kanta 2 remain the first alternative but I have only listened to them once and I see that they do not garner as much acclaim here as the Totems even though they use innovative technologies such as beryllium tweeters.
@Blacknote For power cords I use Red Dawn and Blue Heaven, and for interconnects with the ndx2 I use old YBA glass which are very open.
I donāt know why the previous message disappeared I hadnāt deleted it
@Mike_S Right now my system is almost fully Nordost, except for the ethernet cable and the power block distribution. Sooner or later Iād like to get all Norse cables in the system, Iāve found a big difference between the Leif and Norse series approach, the latter ona has a strong resonance control and it does show. Also the level of clarity and precision is top notch. Right now my power cords are Red Dawn cables and they work pretty well, but Iād like to get one from the Norse series sooner or later, especially for my NDX 2. Have you ever been able to try Nordost cables? If you are interested and considering your system, I wouldnāt audition anything less than the Norse series (prices can still be acceptable somehow) or at least start from the Red Dawn which is great value for money IMO. Nordost power cables had a big impact on my system and are perfect for Naim gear.
@karld In my view, some speakers are just different, they arenāt necessarily better, it also depends a lot on the gear matching as well.
I suspect you mostly focus on the technology used rather than the sound you like, correct me if Iām wrong. I personally look for a type of sound rather than the use of beryllium tweeters or anything else. Innovative technology doesnāt mean itās better for your ear but if you like the Kantas more, then you should buy them, otherwise I would personally go for the Forestsā¦ but you need to trust your ears first and have a decent auditioning session to make up your mind.
Iāve never heard the YBA glass so I canāt comment. I can surely tell you that my Norse interconnects opened up the soundstage quite a lot, Iāve tried them with the Forests and love them even more.
@Blacknote I agree on the theme of technology. The āearā and not the technology decides what is better or worse. I am curious to hear the opinion of those who use Totem speakers rather than Focal because I can discover new opinions but then the final choice always remains subjective.
IMO ethernet cables are equally important and both nordost blue heaven and wireworld chroma 8 I have found them to be very good in my tests
Despite the beryllium tweeter and the specs, I find the Forests more analytical. When I listened to jazz fusion with the Kantas 2, it seemed a bit dull, flat with a darker tone too. I never had this impression with the Forests for instance (even when they were brand new with just few hours of life).
I was surprised about my experience with the Kantas, they were paired with a 222, NC 250 and Wireworld cables (I also listened to them with an Octave V70). I think that you need to climb the ladder if you really want to understand what you can gain with Nordost cables. As good as the Blue Heaven is at its price point, you will (hopefully) have a surprise hearing the difference with a Heimdall or Frey. Considering what you are looking for, I suggest you to try them just to understand which path you might take in the future in case you want more upgrades (it would be interesting to compare them to your YBA).
I agree, all cables are important even though some have more impact than others.
As we are also talking about Totem in general, I once listened to the Winds. I could clearly feel that they had an even stronger base than the Forests, they were indeed pretty nice, but to me they didnāt have the refinement I was looking for in the midrange. Maybe they were brand new, maybe the system wasnāt fully optimized, but I thought that the Forests were more balanced overall and also cost less.
I was not able to listen to the Kanta n2 but I had a chance yesterday to listen to the Sopra n2, which are the older sisters. Nothing to say definitely a very good speaker, with an important presence. Despite everything I remain more involved with the Totem sound and am going the Forest route. I have also listened to the Totem Bison Tower but find them very close to the Sky Tower that I have at the moment. The Bison are highly regarded in the latest online reviews and official Totem channels also because they are the latest releases. The Forests have disappeared from the radars of magazines and even in Totem channels they are in the background but I think we now have a hard-won ranking of them over the years and they need no more introduction.
The Sopra 2 should be even better than the Kanta but I suspect they would need a proper (and very expensive) amp to shine. The Kantas Iāve heard had quite a presence, but also well amped Forests had it.
Iāve always felt more involved with the Forests as well. Some say that once you like the Totem sound, itāll be hard to go for a different brand. So far itās been true in my case but in yours as well. Both Bison Towers and Sky Towers are great speakers in their price range but what comes in Totem lines above them is on another league, indeed the presentation changes and itās clear that itās aimed at a different audio enthusiast. I agree with you, the Forests need no introduction at this stage. After all a well done and engineered product should be updated and refined rathar than changed, at least IMO.
Are you pulling the trigger soon then? If so, great times ahead!
Letās say that exchanging points of view , helps many times to clarify ideas. Then the absolute best thing would be to listen in your own room to the speakers before opening fire. This is not always possible but I will give it a try. Meanwhile to close the day I listened to Agnes Obelās beautiful album titled ā Aventine,ā if you happen to add it to your playlists.
I still remember the first time I heard the Totem forests at a Best Buy in Canada close to 20 years ago. They were close to 5k back then and way above my budget. They sounded incredible in that large wide open store. Iāll never forget how good they sounded with incredible bass for their size. I bought the Totem Hawks instead which I still own. I auditioned the Hawks against the Sky Towers and remember the Sky towers beings much brighter and more mainstream sounding than the Hawks. The Hawks I thought had a better midrange but the forests a more impressive bass and treble.
Shortly after I built some home made Zaph Audio ZRT 2.5 which i felt would outperform the Forest. They are very very neutral with a super flat frequency response but they are a bit dull in comparison and lacking the magic of the totems. They still sound great, probably better then my Hawks but not quite as good as my PMCās sound today.
Iām sure the Totem forests would be comparable to my PMCās and the PMC are pretty current. The PMCās I have are in a different league to my aging Hawks.
I agree, indeed itās great to share ideas and thoughts in this forum. By the way if you are familiar with the Totem sound, you canāt really go wrong and you can tweak it with Nordost cables according to your personal taste. So far it worked very well in my case.
@Hagel I think Iāve heard my first Totem speakers 15 years ago and couldnāt forget them (I think it was the Arrows). Then, when I had the opportunity, I went for the Sky Towers and never regretted the choice. The Hawks should indeed be more refined than the Sky Towers, unluckily Iāve never heard them.
I would agree, the Sky Towers tend to be brighter compared to the Forests. Also the highs presentation seems a bit more recessed and relaxed somehow, so it sounds more natural and organic, yet very detailed with an excellent soundstage.
Iāve read a lot about PMCs in this forum, unluckily Iāve never had the pleasure to hear them. It would be an interesting comparison!
@ftre what musical generics do you usually listen to? does the feeling in listening approach that of a live concert or is it more controlled and keeps the balanced soundstage more distant with the Kanta?
The overall concept is the room situation together with the system, which leads to the fact that I can not only hear the music during certain recordings, but also literally feel the music.
In live recordings for example: Led Zeppelin āHow the west was wonā ; Sade āLiveā it is partly a purely physical feeling, which the system reproduces.
@Blacknote Have you had a chance to listen to the forests many times?
What do you mean by āthe Sky Towers tend to be stiffer than the Forests,ā do you find the medium-highs too bulky compared to the medium-low ranges?
@Hagel find the definition of sky towers as mainstrem very apt in so many ways, and it is not an entirely negative note
The Kantas 2 have quite a deep bass when properly amped, Iād say itās one of their strength. Iāve always heard them with the NC 250 but also with the Octave V70, they really deserve quality power to shine IME. I agree with @ftre, you could feel the music with the Kantas 2, you can with the Totems too but maybe not to that extent.
Yes @karld Iāve heard the Forests on different occasions and with different gear (mostly Naim). Iād love to get the Forests too, so Iāve always tried to understand if they were what I am looking for. Iāve done this over a long period of time and Iāve never changed my opinion.
If Iām not mistaken Iāve listened to the Forests with the Exposure 3010 S2 D, SN3, 202/200, FC/202/200DR and a Bricasti amp. Source was CD5si, NDX5 XS2 and a Bricasti DAC while cables have always been from the Leif and Norse Nordost series.
The better the amp, the better they perform and the Forests do open up their sound a lot. Personally I found quite a difference between the SN3 and the 200 DR, also Red Dawns helped a lot to get a lovely airy sound.
Iāll try to expand what I previously said about the Sky Towers: when I directly compared them to the Forests, I found them to have more prominent and aggressive highs; Iāve never realized it before. Once you listen to the Forests, you might find the Sky Tower even a bit shrilling at times. Take what Iām saying with a pinch of salt, Iām not saying they shrill, but in comparison you might think so. Once you get used to the Forests sound, youāll understand that you get better clarity and precision in a smooth and refined way. The Sky Towers are more balanced towards highs which is maybe their most captivating characteristic. So, as you asked, I might say that highs can be too bulky. The Forests are way more balanced, bass is more textured and deep, midrange is pretty clear and highs are presented in a different, more organic and refined way.
Iām glad to hear it if thatās the case. Iād love to hear the combo.
Never said the SN3 isnāt up to the task, I just meant you need a better amp to extract their real potential having heard what the Kantas can do, they are indeed impressive speakers.
It was a really long time ago so my memory isnāt great. I kind of thought that they were voiced to sound impressive but might get tiresome for long listening. The room they were in was a really great sounding room at a proper hifi dealer, not at Best Buy. The bass and treble were both very strong and no sub required. I remember thinking that for the price they were a great bargain and sounded really good. Better than the 700 series B&W and Focals at the time which were even brighter sounding. I remember thinking the focals sounded unnaturally bright in comparison. I was reading lots of reviews back then and already knew though that I would like the Hawks more. When the hawks went in Iām sure I heard an improvement across the board. The Hawks had even stronger bass, smoother treble but still had just enough sparkle. I was amazed at the clarity in the midrange, I think they were more fluid and less dry sounding compared to the Staff. Both sounded good but I liked the look and sound of the hawks more and wanted to get as much speaker as I could and the hawks were within my budget.
A couple years ago, I almost got the forest signatures but instead I got my PMCās. My Naim dealer doesnāt carry Totem and he gave me a good deal on them.
Iām still very happy with the PMCās, if I want to upgrade from them I would definitely be considering the Totem Metal V2 as my end game speakers.
Hi @karld, Iāve been meaning to reply for a while. I have the SN3 with Kanta 2 and so it may not be that surprising that Iād highly recommend the combo. I note you also like the Totems and since starting the thread you have decided to go with those - thatās great that you have made the decision and Iām sure they will also work well with the SN3.
Iād just add a few things on the Kanta 2. I really believe that the Kantas are the stand out range in the Focal line up. They arenāt the most expensive (by far) nor the highest spec. Many people in this forum bundle all Focal speakers into one type - forward, bright, tweeter not that easy to listen to, in your face, etc. However, I donāt think that can be said of the Kanta range. With the SN3, 250 or up, they offer superb all round performance. The Kantas also really benefit from quality speaker cable. They need to be about 35cm+ from the back wall and likely 75cm+ from the side walls. They sound fantastic with all types of music and never struggle with complex stuff.
They also represent excellent value for money and IMHO look superb. Iād also ask what source you have because naturally to get the most out of the Kantas youād need a v good source too. The same could be said indeed of any speaker, but noting the price difference of the Forest ($6000) versus the Kanta 2 ($10,000), the latter may benefit more.
I thought about the active boards for my PMCās but my dealer wasnāt too sure if it would be better than the 250. I talked to him about letting me swap my 250 for an NPX 300 and the actives modules and he thought that could be a very interesting combo but might lose some of the Naim sound. Iām still tempted because I donāt really want more than 4 boxes.