That’s exactly my experience.
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I haven’t owned the CDX2 but I’ve owned both a bare CDX and then added the XPS power supply. Yes the power supply improves it quite a bit, as one would hope given the expense of it. It’s a perfectly sensible and valid way forward, I wouldn’t argue with that for a second.
HOWEVER - the OP wants to improve his speakers and has asked for speaker suggestions. Instead he is getting suggestions to spend his money improving his sources etc. The point I am trying to make is that whilst this may be the way many people (perfectly sensibly) would chose to go, it is also perfectly valid to upgrade the speakers with careful choice. Nothing at all wrong with that, and that’s what he wants to do.
Source is important of course. But so is amplification and speakers. I would argue that once an adequate source has been achieved then the speakers have the biggest impact on the final performance you will hear.
You could listen to a £10K source through a £2K pair of speakers or you could listen to a £2K source through a £10K pair of speakers, amplification being the same. Which will be more rewarding? Some will say the £10K source for sure as you will be getting more information. But this rather misses the point. It obviously depends on the specific sources and speakers (and amplification) in question but just because a £!0K source will extract more information from whatever it is playing than a £2K source (or hopefully it will), does it really automatically follow that it will be more enjoyable to listen to than the alternative? I would say absolutely not. The £10K speakers may bring something phenomenal to the listening experience even with a £2K source that far betters the more expensive source with cheaper speakers.
It rather puts me in mind of the early days of the Linn LP12. Readers questions in mags would be something like - ‘I have a Rega Planar 3. Can you please recommend a good cassette deck as I want to make some tapes for my car?’ to which the reply would be 'Forget a cassette deck and save up to buy a Linn LP12 as it will give you more musical enjoyment. Well an LP12 is a better source for sure, but it won’t provide the person with what he wanted - which was tapes for his car!
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Until this weekend I don’t think I would have agreed with this comment but yesterday a friendly dealer brought and installed a set of Vienna Acoustics Klimt series The Kiss speakers which he has ex demo at a pretty amazing price.
I have done some black box upgrades recently with NDX to NDX2, NAC202 to 252/SCDR and now also demoing a 250DR instead of my 200. Each upgrade has made definite but relatively small improvements, following the Naim upgrade pathway. When we set up the speakers and started listening the improvement was simply massive and music sounded real and alive. Voices are incredibly realistic and you fully appreciate vocal timbre. Never understood what room filling sound actually meant until this weekend.
So, yep, get the basics pretty good but don’t chase endless black boxes and instead get a kick arse set of speakers is my new position.
So, who’s got the answer for the OP? If he wants to spend $20k I know what I would suggest!
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This is exactly the point I was trying to make. I have experienced the same when I purchased my large Klipsch Forte III speakers around a year ago. In one fell swoop they brought a massive leap forwards in realism and room-filling sound. I have previously spent many many thousands of pounds upgrading electronics over a thirty year period and never before have I experienced that kind of quantum leap forwards in sheer realism.
So yes, you need capable electronics but those can be had for a few thousand pounds. You don’t need to chase mega-bucks sources and amps. Get a suitable pair of excellent quality large speakers and take your listening experience to a whole new level. Of course of you can afford both then you’re really laughing!
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It’s the old marry go round discussion and in a way, both camps are right. But within reason, I’m firmly in the ‘get the best speakers you can’ camp as well.
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Getting the Klipsch speakers is what did it for me. Most of us here have limited budgets and it’s all very well pouring every last penny into getting top of the line sources and amps but that leaves the speakers always as the poor relations. I wish I had invested a lot more in speakers many years ago as I now realise what I’ve been missing through my refusal to treat them as being every bit as important as everything else in the chain - if not even more so in some ways.
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Absolutely phenomenal speakers! You never hear much (if anything) about them, but I heard them years ago when I used to sell Vienna Acoustics and the rep brought them round for us to hear. It was definitely a wow moment. Effortless amazing!
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I have a very similar setup (save RP3 instead of P6, for now…) driving a pair of Dynaudio Heritage Special. Love the sound. Just in the process of buying the Amp. Compared it to the acclaimed Rega Aethos, but to me I preferred the sound of the SN3 with everything else the same. My point being as many others, personal taste and testing in your environment is critical (based on store demos I would have chosen the Aethos.) If you can still get your hands on a pair of the limited Heritage Special, I’d put them on your list, as they fit your budget (£5k) and in my ears are a fantastic combo with Naim.
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Fair enough, but a CDX2 may sound rather forward, some would say harsh and aggressive. You can get different speakers, but you’re not going to change that basic fact. An XPS needn’t cost that much.
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As I said getting an XPS is a perfectly sensible and valid way forward, but the OP wanted some speakers. Presumably if he had found the CDX2 too forward sounding he would not have purchased it. In any case I would argue that careful choice of speakers should tame that if indeed it was an issue.
There’s no absolute right or wrong here. We’re both stating perfectly sensible ways to improve things. My main point was that the OP wanted some speakers and there’s nothing wrong with that. It seems strange in that context to recommend buying an XPS instead that’s all.
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Very fair points, however it has to be entirely positive that people suggest valid alternatives that, from their experience may actually be better. As ever, people can take it or leave it. Just because someone wants me speakers doesn’t make it the right thing to do. It may be. It may not be.
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The Cdx2 is so much better with an XPS, more open, organic, natural, textured. I would do that upgrade first.
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All I was really trying to say was that the ‘source first’ approach is a good one and makes perfect sense up to a point. Beyond that it may not always be the correct route to hi-fi heaven and investing in much better speakers instead may provide more enjoyment. It all depends on so many factors but I would say to anyone don’t just blindly follow the source first approach - always relegating the speakers to ‘second place’.
It’s very difficult to advise someone properly when you don’t actually know them and know exactly what their expectations are. That’s a limitation of this kind of on-line interaction and it’s where having a knowledgable and friendly dealer on hand can make all the difference.
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Exactly so. There is no substitute to listening for yourself. Of course, that’s not always possible, which makes it quite important to identify like minded forum members whose advice is likely to be appropriate.
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I would say that we’re all pretty much like-minded here or we probably wouldn’t be here. I don’t want to be in any way heretical about this. I absolutely value the source first approach but maybe my own experience has caused me to be a bit more broad-minded and open to other possibilities in certain circumstances. Which is not to say that anyone having a different view is not broad-minded.
Some people use a Nait 2 with SBL’s to excellent effect. Back in the 80’s my dealer would have banned me from his premises for being a trouble-maker if I had dared to suggest buying such a combination!
Sometimes things that on paper shouldn’t really work just do - and in a very big way. Weird stuff happens.
Keep an open mind always.
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It is perfectly reasonable for someone to come on here saying they want to improve their system by upgrading one particular item. It is also perfectly reasonable for the forum, many members of which have huge experience in upgrading Naim systems, to suggest another approach which has worked well for them. That is the beauty of the forum, the wealth of experience on tap.
There are however a variety of firmly held beliefs on display here and an OP has to navigate the variety of opinions on here and filter out the evangelists and assess if there is some consensus on the recommended way(s) forward. Then, if at all possible, seek demonstrations, preferably at home or at a dealer, to narrow down the options and ‘validate’ opinions and recommendations. This may of course not be possible.
Two opinions seem to be forming a consensus in this thread, upgrade the source with a power supply first (and then possibly improve amplification), or go for a speaker upgrade first, which the OP was initially asking about. Both are valid. What is not appropriate IMO is for individuals from one camp to shout as loudly as they can in an attempt to win some kind of imagined argument. All that does is deflect and confuse an OP. I am not suggesting this has happened here but I do sense the outbreak of that old chestnut of source first vs speaker first, which isn’t entirely helpful if it develops into a shouting match.
A balanced array of opinions based on relevant experience is what an OP seeks.
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I am really grateful for all the advice and suggestions and I have noted with great interest the discussion about source v speakers.
The reason that I posted in the first place was because you guys have so much more knowledge about Naim.
However I have to balance that advice against my budget and what my ears tell me. Ultimately it is me that has to listen to the system.
Based on the advice to date I am inclined to the view that ;
- I do need a PSU to get the best out of the CDX2
- I am unsure about upgrading the P6 because , whilst I enjoy vinyl I really don’t have a massive collection
- Ultimately I do want to upgrade my speakers in order to get a “bigger” sound - unless as some have alluded to a PSU will bring my speakers to life and give a much bigger sounstage.
What I am really struggling with though is the tought of spending more on a PSU than I paid for the CD player.
I have therefore been researching alternatives. An XP5XS is ruled out as being inferior.
Used XPS are hard to find and still very costly,
So , and I accept this may be almost sacriligeous for some I’ve been looking at a Teddy Pardo XPS.
The reviews are almost universally good and it is available at a fraction of the price.
Problem is I can’t , of course , demo it.
My preference would be a good used XPS for around £1500 but the only one’s are on everyone favourite auction site and I really don’t fancy buying 2nd hand gear from there.
When eventually I decide what to get and try it I will decide upon speakers.
Until then I think I will keep my powder dry.
However I have made a note of all the speaker suggestions and I am genuinely grateful for the advice.
If anyone thinks I’m mad for considering the Teddy please let me know !
It’s actually quite difficult to recommend speakers for many reasons other than ones that are electrically compatible with any given system. Obviously there a few forum favourites here amongst many others to try at a good dealership. In my experience and knowing what i know now i would go the source route first as that is likely to be more rewarding in the long run, with less pot-holes to dodge so to speak. Either way this upgrading malarkey should all be good fun, so enjoy the journey, if it will ever end that is.
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Alternative power supplies cannot be discussed and your post will be moderated. But think about this: if you want your CDX2 to sound as Naim intended, get a Naim power supply.
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My fleeting experience of another ‘XPS’ was that it did a very good job of completely dismantling the music.
G
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