That plot shows about 13dB down at 30Hz relative to 100Hz. As it is a logarithmic scale, 13dB down actually means it would sound as if the power at 30Hz Is only 1/20th of the power at 100Hz. You can still hear it, but it sounds a fair bit quieter. Looking at it another way, 6dB is a doubling of amplitude (loudness), so 13dB down would be a bit quieter then 1/4 of the loudness.
Absolutely. And you should be able to hear the lowest note at the same relative loudness as if you were there in front of the instrument being plucked or bowed. So system, including speaker and room, needs to produce sufficient undiminished depth at the listening position, but well controlled, without evident distortion or overhang.
I deleted my incorrect post because I had mixed up the 30 and 40 Hz lines. You are of course correct and it is about time for the workweek to stop!
That said, a serious speaker should still manage 30 without a “huge” roll-off.
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Hi Charlie
Welcome to this mad forum!
I would be wary of reading too much into manufacturer’s specs. My previous (PMC) speakers were rated down to 35Hz whereas my current ATCs are supposedly only down to 48Hz. Yet the bass on the ATCs is much more present and realistic. It goes lower and you can feel as well as hear it. ATC are notoriously conservative in their specs and the speakers are a closed-box design with much shallower roll-off, which makes comparison with ported speakers complex.
Roger
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Bear in mind it also depends on how the instrument is being played/strings etc, acoustic instruments are not always even across their range especially older ones,
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have a look at @Kiwimac thread.
Choosing a new system - help for a lapsed hifiaholic please!
The situation seems quite similar.
Thanks for the effort to look into those things and I’m glad someone else has heard a talk electronics turntable. Just to check regarding the cartridge, because your price seemed off (googling it now there is one going on Amazon for 110 pounds and one somewhere else for $250 us, it is also apparently the exact same, just rebranded, nagoaka mp110 which Has an elliptical stylus. )Perhaps you looked at the c50, not the c200?
And the phonostage was a rega fono mm. It’s not expensive but when I auditioned my amp against a rega elex r which has a phono stage integrated, I also auditioned the fono mm because the naim amp didn’t have a phonostage. The biggest difference in quality came from going from the integrated in the elex r to adding the fono mm connected to the elex r. It was a much bigger difference than between the nait xs2 and the elex r. The guy from the store agreed. So I asked, if this step up can be gained from a $425 NZ phono preamp, should I try getting something better? He said there is nothing better until you are paying 2 grand (noting they sell a naim phono preamp for around 1 grand) and seemed to be suggesting I just get the fono mm.
That’s probably them yeah. They are definitely fat, looks like a clear tube which has silvery grey stuff inside it. @ColinP I think the cables are chord shawline
Edit: looking at the website I think it was the chord clearway speaker cable, as the shawline would have cost me $420 just for the cable and I think I spent more like $140 NZ.
Agreed, I had a saved link, there seem to be bits all over the place, Edward’s, Talk and the resurrected Roger’s all seem to be related.
Nagaoka don’t get mentioned a lot, on some groups they have a big following but I think the distributor in the UK tends to link more to the DJ market.
As regard phono stages, there has been quite a bit of discussion here recently so have a search. In between the fono and 2k, depending on availability for you there has been some love for Mofi and EAR Yoshino, plus a Russian built one that I forget the name of, @richard.dane will know.
…a pair of speakers I would recommend is ProAc D2’s. I had a pair that I used with my Nait XS 2 and the base was excellent. The frequency response listed is 30Hz - 30kHz. Not sure of your location but I have a dealer close by and was able to demo the speakers at the shop and at home before purchasing.
Good luck with your search…
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Indeed instruments and playing can vary tonal levels and not all be equal amplitude. But my point is that all strings, from fundamental tone upwards, should have the same frequency balance when played back through the system as when played. That is not the case if the bottom tones are attenuated more than the higher tones!
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Try this beginning with the first cut to hear some truly remarkable acoustic bass. IMO the best I’ve heard to test bass response.Available on Qobuz and possibly Tidal but haven’t checked.
Not the Ron Carter album which I happened to be listening to although good bass there too
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True, maybe of fundamental resonant room frequencies, transmission line sealed boxes better in this respect in some rooms, although I’m not that hair shirted enough to not enjoy a bit of trouser Flapping boom…
l’m thinking pinkmans system in breaking bad😂
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Full disclosure, my 30hz requirement came from me googling for what is the lowest frequency on an upright bass. I didn’t notice that it was for a 5 string bass. My apologies for that. Do I listen to a lot of music with a 5 string bass? I don’t think so.
However, I still think this thread is a super interesting discussion, because it is fully legitimate that someone may find listening to 5 string basses important, or other mechanical (as opposed to computer generated) music that goes that low. I think the consensus so far is that it is difficult, and or expensive, to do a good job of reproducing 30hz. The assertion from @anon4489532 that it doesn’t matter because you get a lot from the harmonics anyway, so you should just look for reproducing them well, is based of their experience with speakers that nominally aren’t specced that low but provide a high level of enjoyment of the acoustic bass when paired with a good source. Am I right? But this is probably with for a four string bass? In which case you potentially are hearing the lowest note at a reasonable level. And similarly, others who are responding that their speakers do well with bass or that the source is a more important upgrade are potentially doing so because of their experiences with four string bass. And that is absolutely valuable feedback for me, so it turns out, as I primarily listen to four string bass.
However, even for four string bass, I suspect a lot of speakers are still reproducing the lowest note very differently, given how many speakers are specced between 40 and 55. But it sounds like the speed of the roll off in this range could be very important here.
And, again, the debate about reproducing a 5 string bass is interesting, or other mechanical instruments that go low.
Edit: I actually also listen to a fair bit of metal with 5 string bass guitars, whcih go down to 31 hz but which I didn’t mention because the question is a lot harder to answer. You can’t really know whether you are faithfully reproducing an electric bass guitar, and different people enjoy different aspects of metal, etc. also I would use my cxn as the primary source for such music.
I must extend my thanks to you for starting this thread. I’ve no idea what you are going to do but the recommendation by @RexManning has made my day - the album by Ron Carter and Richard Galliano is bloody brilliant. And that’s with speakers only 305mm tall!
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Totally agree HH listening to it at the moment. I play accordion so extra appreciation for me.
Check out the album I recommended a few posts up too if you are an acoustic bass as the lead instrument, fan.
Thanks, I’ll give it a go. I love Richard Galliano’s stuff and have lots of his albums, but this is one I missed. The accordion is a wonderful instrument. As is the double bass of course!
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Ahh, well I’ve been meaning to thank you for your music suggestion which I was listening to last night (through the cxn but with master quality recording in tidal) and really enjoying. I’m yet to try this other recommendations but am intending to.
Edit: I love the accordion too.
I missed it too, until I saw a “mezzo” show online of them both in Poland if I remember correctly. Sublime performance, but watching shows performed on stage, from my couch makes me very sad as well in these times.