Oh and now I see it does say who I am replying to, sorry again.
Xanthe, I have. I idea what you are talking about but i want to do that and would appreciate the help understanding the graphs.
Thanks, I think the turntable is based off rega yeah. Btw I’m in New Zealand not USA.
If the source doesn’t faithfully reproduce the notes you want to hear, it doesn’t matter how capable the speakers are.
So maybe a place to start could be to audition some speakers using your record player and another record player that is higher specced. Then you’ll know it produces what you want to hear and then you can find speakers to match.
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Lots of bass can be initially impressive. Then after a while it starts to be intrusive and you listen out for it and you shun some discs/CDs as its too much. The last thing you want is one note bass driving the room. Iv’e been there.
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agree with you, thats why I have always folllowed the mantra of source first but a balanced system is not 2 it’s more like 1.5
to be honest in the 20 years of ownership, I have only ever owned Spendor and my current B&W - as my system improved so did the speakers - I put my onld SE6e’s on the end of my electronics now and they are a different speaker to when I owned 202/200
a depbate which I don’t think well ever be finally closed do you go soruce > speakers or the other way around ??
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I’m in NZ too. Where did you buy the amp? The Naim dealers here are, in my experience, great at helping to balance the system.
(Admittedly when I bought the streamer, amp and speakers I broke the source first mantra and spent more on the speakers. My excuse is they are waiting for a suitable source! And it’s coming next week! Anyway back to topic.)
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Do you think this will be a problem for jazz? I would imagine for some electronic music and some pop or hip hop that too much bass could be annoying, but I don’t really listen to those genres. I’m not looking for lots of bass, i just want to hear all of a double bass and I have just noted from frequency response graphs of floorstanders and bookshelves that the decibels tend to be far less for the bottom note of a double bass.
The XS2 goes well with Ovator S400’s. Only available second hand.
I have the S600’s and instrumental Jazz sounds absolutely fabulous.
Source is important though.
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There are lots of very experienced owners on here, and when they are all saying more or less the same thing, there is usually something in it. What they are all saying is that you should improve your source as the first thing. Get used to that and then think about speakers. Your Nait XS2 is lovely and I’m sure there are lots of good speakers out there that will give you what you want. A used pair of Naim Allaes may fit the bill, and won’t break the bank. But first, get a better turntable. Trust us.
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Good to know! I got it slightly second hand but from the real music company in Wellington. Maybe I could ask them but I think they will tell me to upgrade my source haha. Or buy from them when I’d rather get second hand. I was looking at proac response 2.5 until I saw the frequency reaponse graph
I’d never doubt the bass qualities of Proac. The difficulty is normally to tame the bass. It will be present unless your room dimentions cancel it out.
It is surprising to me how many people are content to have otherwise wonderful systems but with speakers that seriously curtail the bottom end. Some even seem to positively dislike bass, saying there’s too much …when their speakers aren’t even capable of going low. Personally I don’t understand how anyone can be happy to lose the bottom end of music: yes, you can hear what a bass player is playing because you can hear the harmonics, but it is not the same as hearing – or feeling – the lowest notes. And in some music that is a significant part of conveying the emotion of the piece. (Of course if you only ever listen to music that has no bottom end content, then nothing is missing!)
One problem is that to do full bass well tends to be expensive (you don’t mention a budget, however secondhand or ex-dem would maximise buying power whatever your budget.) Also, reproducing the full frequency range can place significant demands on the room, requiring care and very possibly treatment of the room to make it work. However these are all really just part of the music replay system – it is rather odd spending a fortune on some parts but not doing it completely? (This is not knocking people who are happy to do that, just that I don’t understand it.)
Personally like the way transmission line speakers reproduce bass, and many are capable of going low. I would therefore recommend auditioning PMC, the higher the model in each range the better the bass. Kerr Acoustics or Castle are other current transmission line manufacturers, though I haven’t heard any of theirs so no idea what they are like other than the opinion of reviewers.
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Those PSB b25 look like an above average excellent mid priced bookshelf. Should be worth sticking with them and your amp for a good while.
I mean low frequency energy is very difficult to control due to the long wavelengths so unless the room is long enough for the wavelengths, you would likely need significant (thick) room treatment to tame low frequency modes which result in boomy bass. Those modes would be reduced by rolling off the low frequency energy put into the room and you may find the rolled off speaker energy plus the room modes to be better balanced than less roll off and more amplified modes.
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They are right. Forget the frequency response. Very expensive stand mount speakers costing $15k are ‘only’ rated down to 40Hz but I can tell you the bass they produce is amazing. Your speakers cannot produce what they are not given.
I’ve got the same amp and it’s a cracker. No weak link there.
But you’ll be amazed how much improvement there is to be gained through a higher spec record player.
And the dealer will tell you that changing the cartridge isn’t everything either. The Vertere DG-1 at over $6,000 comes with a $200 MM cartridge, but it’s commonly reviewed as a significant step up from a Rega P8 for a bit over $5000 but comes with a $1500 MC cartridge.
You can’t beat a quality deck. Then crank it over time with new speakers, a fancy cartridge, phono stage etc. But get a great deck. You won’t regret it. eg a P8 with a cheaper MM cartridge would still be great.
I’ve found the bass on the PMC Twenty5 22 to be very pleasing. Listening to albums like Musica Nuda - Live a FIP and the bass sounds incredibly good.
Ok apologies for not doing my 101 but what do you mean by nodes?
I’m listening to this:
It’s a solo acoustic bass album, beautifully played and recorded. My speakers - ProAc Tablette 10 Signature - are specified down to 55Hz yet the album is thoroughly engaging, even without the lowest notes. Bass is as tight as a drum with no boom or overhang whatsoever. That’s got to be better than mushy wallowy bass.
Of course, tight as a drum and down to 20Hz would be even better, but that comes at a high price and places significant demands on the room. Acoustic bass is one of the things I used to assess whether I would be happy with the speakers and they do it well. Just going by the specs won’t help to get speakers that work to your ears and in your room, and you may rule out speakers that would be perfect for you.
In this case the album is a high res download rather than an LP, but I’m using a good source, a lot more expensive than the amplifier or speakers, and that’s what makes the difference in terms of getting a natural and engaging sound. In my view, anyway.
Any lover of acoustic bass should give this album a spin.
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Personally I think your amp is fine, plenty of room in it for allowing lots of improvement in the source before you even have to think about changing it. After your source has been improved then I would go with speakers in your case as your amp is plenty good enough
Speaker cables, Naim’s own NAC A5 are recommended if you haven’t got them and at least 3.5m up to 20m otherwise it will put undue strain on the amp
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Thanks but when you say these speakers which are rated down to 40hz have bass that sounds amazing, are you referring to the 30 hz bass sounding amazing or the 40 and above? I don’t just want amazing bass, I specifically want to hear the 30hz note. It’s not like I’ve looked at graphs of all the speakers so maybe some aren’t rolling off so drastically below 40? I’ve just looked at a few, highly rated ones though.
I think I need to audition some speakers that go low with my current source and compare to my speakers with a more expensive source.
I’m interested in why a more expensive turntable with a relatively cheap cartridge might be better. The tonearm? Certainly my turntable has been said to sound a lot better than rega equivalents despite using a rega tonearm, but can the platter and plinth and such make that much of a difference?