Speakers: price and size

Yes of course. Your spot on.
Same with Art.
I would much prefer getting excited about looking at a small intricately painted Dutch master still life than a great white shark in a large tank filled with formaldehyde.
And then those massive abstract paintings that the big boys used to like bringing out.
Who really had the domestic space to do them justice if privately buying ? They really only sold to museums and large galleries.

Ahh… IMF… that takes me back. :blush:
I grew up with them in the 70s at my parents. My dad had the TLS80 on a Tandberg receiver (that was huge in my memory). Together with a Nakamichi cassette deck and a Thorens turntable.

My 1st ‘serious’ system living at my parents house was a Harman Kardon receiver with IMF Super Compacts and a Philips CD204.

Same weight as n-Sats, of which mine totally destroy my old Credos into a poof of dust. £595 with n-STANDs.

It would be nice to get another opinion and do a comparison with other speakers in my room because, as I’ve said, I think my cheapie Chora 816 floorstanders sound great. As to HH’s points on cabinets, research…the Chora cabinets are subbed out. They aren’t the stupendous materials and construction as are the Kantas and Arias to a slightly lesser extent. But it seems Focal designed a sonically functional cabinet which, farmed out, saved production costs and allowed budget for quality components. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it!

-and I’ll add, it’s smart business. As with Naim and the Mu-so/ Mu-so Qb, the consumer that may never have bought Naim purchases one. And that purchase opens the eyes and whets the consumer’s appetite for…more (me: Qb to Atom to Nova.) As with the Choras. I’m very happy with them and they seemingly lack nothing…but. Of course I want Kantas or Sopras. But then, those need large rooms. The Sopra 1 would probably be the recommended speaker for the room. And that shoots right back to the OP’s question! Are high quality bookshelves better than cheaper floorstanders? Here, the Kanta 3s or Sopra 2 or 3 may be unappreciated because of the size. And the 816s light up the room…

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If you search on YouTube “focal chora deep unboxing” you will see exactly what is inside a chora. No crossover shown unfortunately. It always interests me to see inside professionally made speakers.

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A different but related question if I may. I have been unconvinced that there has been major improvements in loudspeaker technology over the last 30 years. I’ve only listened to a few modern speakers but they have always left me underwhelmed. I have simply not been able to move on from what I consider the golden age of loudspeakers like Briks, Kans, DBLs, Gales and so on. Is it just me or are others of a similar mind?

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I thought my SL2s would be irreplaceable, being just so musical. A lot of modern speakers are all tizz and boom, exciting but not engaging, and I include a lot of forum favourites in that. But I must say, my ProAcs are a total delight. Maybe that’s why they have the ‘perfectly natural’ catchphrase.

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One of these days I will give them a listen Nigel.

I think things have improved. Drivers, materials, and certain technology has become cheaper to implement.

But, in the end every speaker is a set of compromises, and it’s the design that will make or break a speaker, not any individual component or construction technique. 30 years ago excellent speakers were being designed, same as there are today. And of course it’s impossible to compare like-for-like.

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I took my 23 year old Sonus Faber Concerto speakers to demo some new gear recently and the dealer told I me would need to spend at least £4k to buy a speaker able to achieve a comparative sound quality. Hang onto them was his advice!

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There are several references to SL2’s in this thread, perhaps I can make an observation? The SL2 was carefully designed and beautifully built from premium material, and many experts estimate that Naim lost £000’s on every pair sold. But what is the design? In essence the SL2 is a narrow floor mounted speaker with 2 drivers (roughly the size of a good stand mount ala Sonus Faber) and and a ported lower section. Each driver has its own chamber and these are isolated by a complex structure of frames. (Pig to set up!). Inherent to the design was the philosophy that a good frame would bring the best out of other components, rather like a Caterham race car (yes I race one!).
Unlike a race car the key challenges were to handle coupled vibration (interactions between components with different jobs) and handling stored energy such as heavy base.
Does it work? No surprise that I think it does work, mine are active and driven by a nice suite of Naim boxes but the limit in size does mean that base below 35hz or playing at very high volume (110db plus) they can become a little tight. But they are incredibly musical, sound stage and rythm are excxeptional and apart from when my inner hooligan comes out to play they exceed all my needs.
For fun I ran my Linn Kan’s on the same front end. They remain a cult classic for a good reasons but need a sub to get the complete soundstage, so I quickly reveretd to the much more pricey SL2’s.
So my point. Great design is crucial, and let’s face it high volume manufacturers do this well, but the drive for higher sales and lower costs does mean a compromise and these often show themeselves in small but noticeable annoyances. The SL2’s hold my attention because they have fewer compromises, but the ultimate compromise was that Naim stopped making them for largely commercial reasons. Have they been good value for money? I bought them (ex dem) in 2003 for £4250, and have found nothing to come close below £20k or more, so I think they have done a good job for the money. (Great article by Martin Colloms at http://tomtomaudio.co.uk/reviews/Naim%20SL-2.pdf by the way)

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And they are very nearly as good as SBLs… :roll_eyes:

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I had SBL’s before the SL2’s. Easier to set up but more easily destroyed by teenage children, and IMO not as good to listen to…

Nigel upgrades and eulogizes over new kit. Nigel downsized and eulogizes over new kit.
Nigel upgrades and…
Nigel downsizes…

It’s Deja Vue all over again :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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I’m not sure what that’s got to go with anything. It was simply an innocuous question and really nothing to do with any particular items, with no eulogising as far as I can see.

And it’s déjà vu, not Deja Vue.

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Agreed, should have been more diligent with the use of French/English. It was meant as a light-hearted tease…

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Yowl hiss hiss :cat2:

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I can second that for the PMC MB2’s as I own a pair well worth a listen

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And i will 3rd that as an over the moon PMC MB2se owner.

Part of me regrets not getting a pair when I had the opportunity, primarily for future manhandlability reasons, though my speakers as set up now are not far off MB2. Some time I will have to compare directly!