Speakers - What am I missing out on?

Hi-Fi Corner
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Just now I was sitting here listening to Thom York’s excellent solo album Anima and was grinning from ear-to-ear listening to the opening track; Traffic >> Last Heard (…He Was Circling the Drain). If you haven’t heard the album it’s worth the time if you like glitchy electronic rock and hits a lot of low frequencies. I’m pretty pleased with my system at the moment, but just like the rest of you sicko’s my mind is always wandering to further experimentation and incremental improvements.

I feel like my PMC FB1+’s do a good job in my system/space and my aspirations for system upgrades don’t currently include anything speaker related. Instead I’ve been contemplating moves on the digital side since upgrading my TT. I’d really like to try a power supply upgrade to my nDAC but I have limitations with my rack so I’ve been thinking of selling the DAC and ND5 XS2 and moving to a NDX2 and XPS DR over time (i.e. one less box). Then I got to thinking; have I reached the point at which I should be contemplating moving away from “source first”?

Any thoughts on where I should go next? With regards to my speakers, what do you think I’m missing out on vs a more modern version of a system equivalent speaker (e.g. PMC twenty5 23i/24i, ATC SCM40, Proac Response D20)? I know the examples I’ve given are all next level, but is it a big jump?

I’m generally very slow with these things, I save what I can justify without raising the ire of my wife and try to buy used, but it’s fun to have goals.

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I don’t know whether/which PMC Twenty/Twenty5 model would better your FBs, but other possibilities definitely upwards would be EB1i, Fact 12 and MB2, first or last of these for deepest bass, all available secondhand (If you’re in Britain see HiFi Shark)

I don’t think you’ve identified your amp, which can be relevant to speaker choice?

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Thanks for the response IB. I think I would be more in the realm of Twenty or Twenty5 budget wise if I’m in the market. I love the energy my FB1’s bring into my room and if I did make a move I’d want to try and keep that.

Sorry, I need some help here, what is “amo”? I’d love to hear other thoughts on the subject. It might be too difficult to answer due to the influences of the room and personal preferences.

Also, I’m located in Vancouver, BC, Canada and the market for high-end audio is much smaller than Britain.

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I think amo should be amp.

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Phone finger amp! Edited.
BTW I didn’t make clear those speakers I mentioned are better than Twent.26

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Whilst you could improve the front end, there’s nothing wrong with the ND5SX2 DC1’d to the nDAC.

The week link is probably the SN2 - perfectly capable, but 282/250 would be better

Box count is always an issue - i’ve run out of rack space, and have two HCs and the napsc off to the side on spiked platforms

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One suggestion is to consider the active twenty.25 series PMCs. You can find used speakers and then add the active upgrade. I have the active 21s with a Uniti Atom HE and it’s very good indeed, and couldn’t be more discreet. In your case you may want to think about the NSC222 streaming preamp, which would be the only box you’d need with some active speakers. A few people have reported that the 222 alone is hardly better than the Atom HE, only showing its advantage if you need the phono stage or want to add the upgrade power supply.

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Thanks for your thoughts @Percymon. I’ve always had pre-amp/amp in my future plans, and hadn’t thought of prioritizing it, but your post does force me to seriously consider something else; my DIY rack. The issue I’m having with space is only going to get worse unless I consider moving to more integrated components.

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Ahh…now I see. I’m currently using a SN2/HiCap DR. Adding the HiCap DR to the mix was a revelation which is what really made me curious about how the XPS DR would influence the nDAC.

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This is a very interesting thought HH. I’ve noted the positive experience that you, @ratrat and some others have had with active speakers and considered moving in that direction. My thoughts were that a 282 with active twenty.25’s would be very attractive, but had not considered a solution that included integrated streaming.

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As you’re willing to consider active (Class D amplification) speakers, you could do worse than audition a Nova PE into passive speakers, potentially offering a wider speaker range together with considering the Atom HE/NSC 222 into active speakers as HH suggests.

I auditioned the Nova PE when looking at the Linn Selekt DSM, just to give me a Naim Class D baseline and was more than a little impressed.

Of course, YMMV.

ATB, J

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= half impressed?

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Why wouldn’t anyone?

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I sincerely trust this lost something in translation……?

ATB, J

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Merely pointing out the various options available in today’s modern world, so indeed, why not?

ATB, J

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Yes, it is. One of my doctors calls it “Dream Building”, good for the mind and soul.

Warm regards,

Mitch.

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There are, as with most things, pros and cons. Using an Atom HE or an NSC222 allows balanced connections to the speakers. But bundling the streamer and preamp together reduces flexibility as things evolve. But then again, reducing flexibility can be a plus for some. Having owned some fairly elevated systems over the years, I really appreciate having one box, two speakers, three mains leads (a Powerline and two Powerline Lites), two XLR cables and one Ethernet cable. And that’s it. I don’t even need a fancy hifi rack, just a coffee table. It’s just so simple but extremely good to listen to and of course very easy to live with. It’s not for everyone, but it works for me.

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I just asked the meaning. Does it mean you were strongly impressed or half impressed?

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It doesn’t mean either. It just means more than a little. Somewhere between a little and a lot.

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Hi @Adikt
I see you’re having fun contemplating next steps and mapping out a future vision of a higher system, etc.

If you have an idea of where you wish to go, personally, I’m not convinced that it matters so much how you get there. In other words, with an end goal in mind, add things as you find them in the SH market.

With that idea or an approach, in mind, here are a few thoughts to share. ( In no particular order).

Now that you have a HiCap, adding a NAC282 pre-amp becomes a viable option.
Honestly, a 282 works fine with a SN ( in power amp mode), as a combo. And it’s a nice step up from SN only. Then take your time and see how you like that. We considered the power amp in our SN3 as maybe the star in that integrated package. ( Maybe a better power amp, than the pre amp section).

A next step might involve swapping the SN for a power amp. The obvious candidate would be a NAP250 DR. Which is another really nice step forward. However, in our case, we decided to shift the power amp into an active speaker “amp packs” instead and thought this was better outcome for SQ. ( Note : there are many benefits to active speakers, affecting the presentation and sound quality. But it’s maybe not for everyone).

Source first is always a good strategy.
Adding a psu to the ND5 XS2 → nDAC will be rewarding. If it’s helpful, there are lots of experiences of this idea shared. The search function is your friend. The key aspect of this option is the money involved as it presents as maybe lower budget and cost effective, (albeit you end up with 3 boxes).

However, if box count is a consideration, can see how a two box solution may be attractive, say NDX2 + XPS DR.
Maybe the key here is the cost of an NDX2 - for you locally - and then calculations for 2 box solutions v 3 box solutions. But, honestly, there not much on SQ to choice between those two options, maybe other than slight nuisances of presentation.
Users - including myself - usually pursue the 3 box option because it gets you to a same similar space for a lot less dollar.
So make a choice based on budgets, box count and your personal preferences here.

For speakers, looking at the PMC active options, maybe pursue the idea suggested by HH, namely finding a SH Twenty5.23i or 24i and then add the active upgrade modules as another step later. (Maybe trading the SN for PMC active modules ). The 23i’s are a more popular model, so maybe more likely to see these on the SH market. The 24i’s are larger, need a larger room and have a reputation for maybe be challenging in some room settings. So, would be more compelled to try 24i’s in my own listening space before deciding on that option.

Having heard previous generations of PMC, yes, the current twenty5 series floor standers are an evolution, more of everything. Once you move over to the active version, the step forward in SQ is compelling.

Another thought, there an argument for swapping all the OC parts - you currently have - for NC option NSC222, which is an attractive option as explained by others, no problem. However, If you are focussed on SQ as a priority, can confirm that ND5 XS2 → nDAC + psu → 282 + HiCap DR beats a 222. So, if considering NC as an option - from where you are - unfortunately 333 + 332 ( both bare, no psu) is the way to go.

Lastly, just to explain, we ran SN3 as pre-amp only, at home, for a short period - with PMC 23i active speakers. This is another pleasing step forward, compared to say SN3 integrated → PMC 23i passive. So, that’s another option, as a step in a planned mapped out progression.

Ideally, you might find a supportive dealer that allows you to explore some or all of these ideas before purchasing anything.

Hope all those thoughts help
Lots of options. Maybe too many ? Good luck.
As always, enjoy the journey.
R

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