SQ - Roon vs Audiophile NAS (melco/innuous)

Hi been messaging Melco guys as sorting Ex upgrade for my Melco n1a/2 and they said that melco was going through its final testing to become a roon endpoint and would be released for the version 4.0 firmware in a future update

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A Melco server is still NAS like device, and the on-board disks can be read & indexed by a Roon Core. If you then get a UPnP Bridge (either the SGC dedicated device pictured above, or the SonoreUPnP Bridge on a Rendu or SGC Server, or a DIY PI based solution) you should be able to serve what is stored in the Melco to your NDS without having to run Twonky etc.

I would still connect the ‘Ethernet out’ of the Melco to the NDS, and have the UPnP Bridge on a device connected to the Network side of the Melco, along with whatever is running the Roon Core.

I believe that this the configuration that served @RipVanRadio well for a while before going all ND555

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thankyou simon really really helpful above approach for me trying roon out (think would be the SGC or sonore bridge i would go with, not sure if any difference quality wise?)

in terms of only bit am missing is what good way to run ROON core on a standalone unit i could insert into my audio part of the network (don’t want to have desktop PC in the loop, i can use my laptop in interim to see how it goes/try it out). guessing something like a micro PC with a small SSD (again any suggestions of something sensible/reasonable for this with good Sound quality properties appreciated)

Well, one solution is the SGC SonicTransporter, which will provide the Roon Core and run the SonoreUPnP Bridge.
See https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/collections/audio-server/products/sonictransporter-i5?variant=20893269700

The other is the range of Roon capable servers from Vortexbox in the UK (importers of the SGC and Uptone products see https://www.vortexbox.co.uk/High_Performance_inc_Roon/cat317979_4201682.aspx

Another is a NUC based server for the Roon Core, running ROCK, and then the dedicated device for the SonoreUPnP bridge - https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/collections/accessories/products/upnpbridge?variant=6964135395362

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I concur with @simon.pepper and @WeekendWarrior. I would like to add a bit about my experience with getting Roon to work with my legacy Naim kit.
I Roonified my NDS with an Audiostore/Vortexbox server and I’m very satisfied. A big bonus is that Martin at the Audiostore is very knowledgeable, more, I think, so than many dealers, so he’s worth talking to about your specific needs.
In addition I wanted to add Roon to my Unitiqutes. I started with trying a Raspberry Pi but ran into problems with the software; but then I realised that I could run the same software on my computer. It’s a Mac Mini and the software works without a hitch (why did it not work on the RPi?).
Now this software (LMS-to-UPnP) takes some getting your head around, but it’s not daunting. There is plenty of guidance here.
But, as @simon.pepper pointed out below, a little clarification is required with the RPi issue. If you can imagine viewing the terminal screen of the RPi in action with the LMS software, with Roon Radio running from a local source of music, an error message came up referring to a ‘broken pipe’. This meant that the music stream stopped working after 20-30 minutes.
I’m not sure what ‘broken pipe’ means, but it was explained to me that an instruction from one segment of software to another failed. As the only software running was LMS-to-UPnP, it seems reasonable to assume the failure was within it.

Roon Core will run on a wide variety of devices, including pretty much any moderately powerful PC or Mac, laptop or desktop, and some NAS. Many will already own something suitable, in which case I would run it on something you already own to get you started. If you like it enough to pay for it, you can easily transfer it to a new device later.

I have not experienced this, I have the LMS2UPNP binary running on a RPi2 using DietPi, as a backup to the SonoreUPnP Bridge I have running on the UltraRendu, just in case. And it runs fine, tested against good long playlist.

And just to add my own experience…I was able to run Roon to my 272 both via USB/ SPDIF converter and also over Ethernet using the Sonore UPnP bridge. Initially I didn’t think there was a SQ difference and would have stuck with the USB/SPDIF route as that gave me lots of flexibility, but then I added a "555"PS to the 272 and I preferred the traditional Ethernet route.

The Ethernet option also gave me a logistical advantage because I don’t have to physically locate everything close to my 272 which you would have to do if you used the USB/SPDIF option.

Sorry @ChrisSU, this wasn’t a reply to your post - used wrong reply option and don’t know how to delete it now it is posted :nauseated_face:

Yep I know I’m in a minority with a troublesome Pi. I’ve changed my network this week and have not tried the Pi since.
I’ve not given up, like you I like to have a backup system, but the Pi has been relegated to 4th place. I note that there have several updates to the software recently; I’ve updated the Macs, but not yet the Pi.

right thanks for all the advice and pointers so far as ever many ways to go ?!?!?!?

so in terms of now think got my head round it see steps as follows

  1. test ROON out properly to see if get on with it - USE melco as NAS; use my laptop via battery mode to connect to my hifi switch to run ROON core and server, Install Logitech Media Server and work out how the hell get the UPNP software bridge to work !?!?

  2. If Like ROON (and to future proof the NDS) get Sonore UPnP Bridge (cheaper option @£182)

  3. Get ROON core device to replace laptop (Audiostore MICROROON STREAMER (@£500 mark but would be bridge and ROON Core and negate laptop)

  4. If REALLY REALLY like ROON consider replacing Melco with ROON Nucleus plus / Audiostore Premium device (both in the £2500 ball park)/ Innuous (without DSP options)

  5. Stick a fancy switch on this like Etheregen with a liberal sprinkling of LPS and audio ethernet cables :slight_smile:

all of this of course will depend on Sound Quality for me if any above can beat the melco for SQ

cheers,

mat

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Ok, well you need to indicate that the issues you were having are not an overall one with the LMS2UPNP software or solution, to avoid confusion for other forum members considering this solution path.

You already have a UPnP Bridge solution working well, and this was an expansion project, involving a DIY PI-based build, where the issues could be in Pi OS etc.

Yes to 1. use Melco as NAS, and have it’s streamer output connected to the NDS etc.
2. Use a Laptop connected to the network side of the Melco, to run Roon Core, index the library on the Melco, and control playback etc.
3. Logitech Media Server (LMS) is not required - this is a UPnP server, and that function is provided by the Roon Core.
4. You will need the LMS2UPNP program or a UPNP Bridge running somewhere, to present as a Roon endpoint, but serve the stream to the NDS as a UPnP based one.
Either this the LMS2UPNP which runs in Linux (hence on a RPi), or there is a Windows version (https://community.roonlabs.com/t/ifi-bridge-a-upnp-dlna-app-solution-for-playback-on-roon/85864), which could run on the laptop as the same time as the Roon Core.
This would test out Roon Core and the Bridge, accessing the Library on the Melco.

Or build a Pi-based bridge using the LMS2UPnP solution, and maintain that.

Long-term you will need a server based approach to running Roon Core.
Either a device from SGC/Audiostore that runs Roon Core and the Sonore UPnP Bridge in one.
Or a NUC that runs ROCK.

A Nucleus, is a NUC, in a fanless case, pre-built with ROCK, for lots of money (but nothing to do, but plug it in).
Remember your Music Library is still stored and served from the Melco, so you don’t need larger internal discs in the device running Roon Core (just a SSD for the Roon database).

Additional switches are then optimizing your network, pre-Melco, but remember one of the USPs for the Melco devices, is the separate isolated network for the streamer connection.

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Unless you are planning to stream from Tidal or QoBuz Roon won’t give you an improvement in sound quality over what you have currently. I will give you a better user experience though.

If you have £2500 to spare I’d be saving a bit more and going for a gently used 555DR on the NDS, I know, I’ve already said that already elsewhere!

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getting a 555 DR is a given at some point :slight_smile:

does ROON not give any improvement to SQ even feeding DSD into the NDS???

the secondary benefit for me after SQ is the interface and and the Quobuz/tidal for new music discovery which i like the integrated option of having

I don’t have any DSD so can’t comment but generally I didn’t notice any difference in sound quality on everything I have tried. I was quite thorough in my auditions as I didn’t want to go to something worse.

What it does give is parity with Tidal/QoBuz vs local streaming making these services a viable alternative to obtaining and storing your music.

I love the Roon interface, it’s music discovery and the aggregating of local and streamed content. This was my reason for changing to Roon.

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Well tried and failed to get it working so far
1)installed ROON core on laptop ok
2) set NAS to melco
3) installed iFi bridge on laptop, which states it finds devices and runs ok
4) run ROON with squeezbox selected
5) go to find audio devices and it then takes an eternity (hours to find anything, has only found the devices twice so far and didnt get as far as playing any music…?)

have turned off my firewall for steps 3-5 above but no avail

any ideas what i may be doing wrong?

Does the iFi Bridge work with non iFi products? The Sonore UPnP Bridge works with Naim kit, or the alternative to the Sonore is the LMS2UPNP program.

Edit…there is a short thread on this on here (New way to Roonify legacy streamers) so maybe some of those that did try it may have some advice.

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took a look no joy with the iFi :frowning:
dowloaded the LMS2UPNP thing don’t even know where/how you start with it via windows, need a numpty guide i think (how or where do you start with it???)

also had chat with audiostore re: https://www.vortexbox.co.uk/MicroRoon_StreamerServer_Limited_Edition/p317978_19996653.aspx

as a hardware alternative

or whether to build a NUC i7 Roon ROCK and a use the sonore upnp bridge

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Yes its the same as the lms2upnp bridge just packaged better but only runs on Windows.

It’s the same basic app as the Ifi one. What exactly didn’t it do. It worked for me.