Stageline N specs

I have thought of nothing else, since 1979… :astonished:

Three DV10X’s - and two Linn (Asak & Asaka).

Right I see what you’re saying. It depends on your frame of reference. A higher output MM compared to a “high output” MC is going to seem quite different. Luckily though we have a volume knob to help with that.

I’m still thinking about @IanRobertM s advice and pondering if a High Output Blue Point No.3 is within what I was willing to spend. And if so, is it worth it just to have unbroken rows of Naim logos. I’m not married to Naim. It really depends on whether a Stageline/HCdr trounces the competition. I can’t test that. I can, however, borrow both Luxman and TEAC phono stages. OTOH i already have an unused HCdr.

The Sumiko Blue Point is in the same price range as the DV10X, I think… ?? (*)

Very well liked on here… :wink:

(* May be different, in Hokkaido though…?)

Of course, the regular low output Blue Point No.3 costs roughly the same as the high output. It might just be simpler to go Stageline S, but then I’m really committed aren’t I.

I’ll sleep on it… about 50 times.

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I consciously got out of using Low Output MC’s, around 2001, because of cost - and went back to a DV10X (which I had used prior to getting into Linn MC’s). I am still there… :expressionless:

A HOMC “suffers” from the same replacement cost issue as a LOMC, I don’t think either have readily replaceable stylii/stylusessses. Granted most HOMC are more cost equivalent to higher end MMs, but it is still a chunk of money compared to a replacement stylus on a similarly priced MM. I’m only talking out loud as am considering a similar set of questions. I chose to upgrade my phono amp to a Graham Slee, MM only. And am now thinking about HOMC, but that’s a £1200 solution, with c. £550 replacement costs vs, well, not as much if I stay MM.

A HOMC into Stageline N might be a great option, as might LOMC into Stageline S.

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As might a High Output MC (such as a DV10X) into Naim E Boards… :slightly_smiling_face:

Thanks Richard. The matching input capacitance listed for the Shure is 200-300nF while for the AT is 100-200pF. Based on that alone the the AT should be worse than the Shure. However, I’ve seen numerous indications on vinyl-related sites that, as you say, the AT is less sensitive to high capacitance than the Shure (?!) Obviously a design difference that makes the ATs more generally compatible.

With a Cartridge connected to a Phono input, there is an R L C circuit formed. The R will be the sum of the cartridges resistance and the input loading - 47kohms for a Stageline N. The L will be mainly the cartridges inductance. The C will be the sum of the arm leads and input loading - 470pf for a Stageline N.

This will have a resonant frequency - which is the root of the problem here. The usual Moving Magnet designs (so Shure) are limited in how big they can make their magnet (because it sits on the other end of the cantilever) - and so need more coils - so more Inductance. A Moving Iron (such as Ortofon or Stanton) or Moving Coil cartridge can use a bigger magnet (as its in the body of the cartridge). So less coils are needed - so less Inductance.

Less Inductance pushes the RLC resonance higher & out of harms way.

Thats my understanding… :thinking:

Ah, so a moving iron cartridge would be less susceptible to input capacitance mismatching?

I remember in the old days, Shures (eg V15/II) has a very low matching capacitance, so much so that at one point SME introduced plug-in RCA adapter for their 3009 arms with a capacitor inside them to increase the total input capacitance and smooth out the frequency response.

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Yes, I think so… :thinking: But… Ortofon used supply the CAP210 which slid onto the pins of the Cartridge to boost Capacitance.

Shure cartridges seem to need more Capacitance that most other cartridges do - which is what SME were maybe doing…?

MC’s are a lot less hassle in this respect… :astonished:

Well, that was in the late 60s/early 70s. They haven’t done that for years.

Sounds like I should put the Shure up for sale (cheaper than changing phono stage)!

I have found a quite good explanation, on the web.
Trouble is its on another manufactures forum… :expressionless:

I will just post a short extract:

“Taking the median 500mH and a 47k load, and using inductance equations it can be seen that the moving magnet cartridge can only go up to 15kHz before rolling off at a natural 6dB per octave (In fact 15kHz used to be considered high fidelity in the valve days). Capacitance however, is unavoidable, and as we’ve heard, the turntable interconnect contributes around 100pf which resonates with the cartridge inductance, taking it to 21 kHz, but then rolling-off at 12dB per octave. To avoid radio breakthrough which is what you’d get from a high impedance input, a moving magnet phono stage finds an input capacitor a “must-have” and 100pf is about the smallest that can be gotten away with. The result is 200pf in parallel with the cartridge and that results in a turnover frequency (-3dB) of 20 kHz with a slight 1dB peak at 10 kHz. This may be OK for a slightly sluggish sounding system, but otherwise, really sensitive ears can hear this and it has been suggested that the 47k input resistance is reduced to around 35k, which takes the -3dB roll-off back to 15 kHz, in effect giving the same turnover as having no capacitive load, but still with a 12dB per octave roll-off.”

Full version can be found, if you search for - ‘cartridge matching part 1’.

I too went down the Stageline N route which I use with a Hicap. I believe that the 470pf capacitance is way too high so I removed the 470pf polystyrene capacitor at the input and replaced it with a 47pf value. This opens up and extends the treble. RF is not a problem with MM cartridges as they don’t have the extended frequency response of MCs.

Mildly related, but when my new cartridge was recently fitted by my dealer at home, he suggested a 100 ohm load. In the end we both agreed the 330 ohm setting sounded best. As for capacitance, he said it rarely mattered with MC cartridges and despite making changes, neither of us could hear a difference.

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Thanks guys. Don’t think I’ll be messing around inside the Stageline but it all kinda fits. I’m sure NAIM did this because of potential RF interference but not sure how absolutely necessary it is.

I am also using a Stageline N but with a moving iron cartridge, a Grado Reference Sonata 2.
Output is 4.8 mV through a passive line preamp.
It goes without saying that I use high positions of the volume pot but I have more than enough headroom for normal/lively listening level.
Matching is really good, no noise, sound quality Is excellent and I cannot hear any subdued high frequencies.

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Hi! In my system Shure V15III sounds very nice with Stagline N.
Before Stagline N I had in same system Rega phono MM and Project MM and they both are not capable as Stagline N and for sure have less detail and dynamics.

Err, the Naim Stageline S is designed for Low Output Moving Coils. The Shure V15 is quite definitely a Moving Magnet cartridge with a MUCH higher output.

Are you Shure… :crazy_face:

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Oh sorry it is N and i have S also and S works in main system with Denon cartidge exeptionaly…
I will correct