Stuck a Linear Power Supply on My Switch - Blimey! šŸ˜±

Hi JonoB, Simon,

Lets take a typical network installation found in a lot a UK houses. Many properties will receive their broadband internet feed from their ISP via cable modem. These modems utilise DOCSIS which is the interface standard technology that determines how a modem receives Internet signals from the cable ISP and translates them into the Internet service used in the home. There are 2 DOCSIS standards, the older 3.0 and the more modern 3.1. One of the more important specs for DOCSYS is the channel bonding number ie how many channels can operate simultaneously to achieve maximum speed. DOCSIS 3.0 may have 8X4 (8 upload, 4 download) which limits speed to 100Mbps (I believe), 16x8, 24x8, or 32x8 (for 1Gbps max). DOCSIS 3.1 has 32x8 to achieve its max speed of 10Gbps.
The DOCSIS interface converts the incoming streams to the Ethernet standard used in the home. This conversion process requires power (usually 12V) and creates noise, as does any process that performs work. If you are interested to understand the structure of ethernet data packets, hereā€™s a link

For a music file you can imagine how much processing is required for a standard 16Bit 44.1 KHz CD. Now add all the other household internet traffic and maybe you begin to understand why limiting the amount of traffic on your Audio network can remove large sources of processing noise of all forms and reduce demands on power supplies etc.

Ethernet packages are output from the Modem via an RJ45 plug/socket. This interface also requires power and also generates a degree of noise. The ethernet packages may now go to a router. Routers based on the Intel Puma chipset have had serious bugs in the firmware that would cause dramatic rises in latency when traffic volume increases. For audio, routers based on a Broadcom chipset avoid these issues and sound a lot better. Within the router, ethernet packages, currently in voltage form, are re-formatted as Wi-Fi frames, converted to a radio signal and transmitted via built-in antennae.

Again a lot of processing noise is generated, along with transmission noise, as with any radio signal. Somewhere within the range of the transmission another antennae, maybe from a network bridge picks up the signal and the bridge translates the radio signal back to an ethernet-package-formatted voltage (using whatever it has for a power supply)ā€¦.again with accompanying noise. The newly generated ethernet package stream is probably now sent via RJ45 ethernet cable to a switch. The switch usually requires 12V DC so is powered by its own supply. A degree of filtering is applied to the incoming signal. Central to the switch architecture is the switching chip, which itself produces noise, some more that others. Optimized-for-audio switches like for example the Innuos PhoenixNET has highly optimised power supplies, switching chip selected for its low noise characteristics, extremely accurate oscillators and audio grade magnetics for the RJ45 isolation. Potential sources of RFI ingress are screened, internally generated EMI is minimised by design and component selection and all sensitive electronics are isolated from vibration. From the switch, the data stream may then travel via an RJ45 ethernet cable to the server, where again noise can be removed and minimised. The less traffic that has travelled though the network, the less work has been done by all network components, the less noise of all types is included with and within the bitstream. The server has a major impact on sound quality, depending on how much noise it can remove and how clean and well timed a data stream it can output. The server may output an ethernet packet stream or may convert the incoming ethernet to the USB standard for transmission directly to the DAC. What sounds like a trivial conversion can have a major impact on sound quality. Things like clock accuracy and power supply both play exceptionally important roles.

With the above in mind, the less network traffic processed, the lower the noise generated. The better the power supplies, the lower the noise level and the higher quality all the conversion steps and voltage structures. The more accurate and precise the conversion steps, the better the downstream processes run. The better the network operates, the higher the quality of the data stream that reaches the DAC. The higher quality the DACā€™s input, the better its output. Based on what Iā€™ve learned about networks related to sound quality, power supplies, cables, oscillator accuracy, vibration control, EMI and RFI control all matter. The better you can get every module of your network to operate and the more noise OF EVERY TYPE that you can take out of the system or avoid, the better the final music quality will be.
Audiophile network devices seek to minimize noise of all types, which leads to a higher standard of musical presentation.
My guess is that audiophiles the World over would be utterly stunned at just how amazing a completely noise-free digital source would sound. Unfortunately such a thing is likely impossible to achieve but the potential for improving sound quality by reducing noise is still far greater than most audiophiles would imagine. This is why so many companies are designing, building and successfully selling devices to achieve major improvements in this regard.

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The simplest way to do this, is to get an ISP/router that is used solely for streaming to one streamer.

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Thatā€™s absolutely true and would be an excellent solution but depending on your ISP that may mean opening 2 separate accounts and paying for the installation of a second line (not really a big deal given the gains it would bring :blush:).

I actually contacted Virgin Media about 2 years ago to see if it was possible to get a FTTP (Fibre to the premises) installed in addition to my FTTC (Fibre to the cabinet). The person I talked to told me that only one connection per household was possible. No idea if this person was correctly informed. With the advent of Smart Working and home offices, I would have thought a 2nd line would be quite common, so certainly worth looking into for anyone aiming for SOTA streaming.

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Interesting discussion and if the benefit of all these network enhancements were real, I would genuinely like to take advantage of them. But surely, if I want to hear the potential of digital in my system why not just plug an HDD with my digital music collection, with a ā€œdecentā€ usb, straight into my system and eliminate the network all together. Wouldnā€™t this at least demonstrate the potential of the digital side?

I would have thought most USB is more noisy than ethernet, unless the very latest high speed USB which looks more like ethernet.

A USB memory stick or self powered HDD at least has in its favour no common mode noise, unlike potentially with a USB lead / ethernet lead, but it is likely to be quite noisy - certainly a HDD.

The best way to show the potential of a digital side (I have found) is to separate the digital streamer from the DAC using SPDIF.

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Thanks Simon, so what if I have something like a Uniti Core and connect to streamer via SPDIF - still noisier than Ethernet? Just trying to understand as the technicals go above my head somewhat.

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By separating the digital front end from the DAC is going to show you what the DAC can do without risk of noise of the transport affecting the DAC.

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Apart from the em noise that can come through the cable between transport and dac.

Including the power cord of the dac, transport, and from earlier equipment in the digital signal chain that feeds into the transport.

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Yes, since I had a 272 Iā€™ve had a separate transport and DAC.

But the potential of the digital side for improvement is still enormous.

For example, adding an EE8 plus a Super 3 psu is a large upgrade (with a separate transport and DAC).

Have you ever heard the difference that a really good power supply into a good audio designed switch can make?

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Indeed, diminishing returns, but a good streamer front end such as the NDX2 with a good decoupled DAC like the DAVE, means that vagaries of network components, leads, powersupplies, you name it, become irrelevant. My previous so called ā€˜audiophileā€™ switch became irrelevant.
It was quite liberating to leave all that OCD tweaking behind. Donā€™t want to ever go back there again.
This was notably different say from my first gen NDX into a nDAC / 555PS where network, FLAC vs wav, and even UPnP server who contributed changes to the ā€˜soundā€™

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Doesnā€™t using a Toslink between transport and DAC make low noise LPS on router pointless, as any noise at the transport canā€™t transfer to the DAC.

Yes, I have a Toslink fibre cable from my TV STB to my DAC.

But who has a Toslink fibre cable from streamer to DAC?

I have a DC1 cable there.

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Plenty of people.

I use VDH optocoupler into ndac. Sounds very good.

Good quality transport with good quality optical cable, itā€™s the future. :blush:

Good way to cut electrical noise.

But do you have to convert from optical fibre internet (?) to electrical ethernet to optical link then back to electrical in the DAC?

The optical link from my TV makes YT sound good into my DAC.

But into my streamer I prefer all electrical from the fibre wall socket.

Not really. All Toslink does is remove common mode noise and that occur equally with LPS or SMPSā€¦ that is linked to the grounding environment.
Noise in the form of phase noise can equally transfer to the DAC with Toslink, just like using fibre on Ethernet. That doesnā€™t reduce clock or phase noise either.
The phase noise reduction is why you use a quality digital streamer. The better the streamer, the lower the phase noise on the SPDIF clock. The lower the phase noise the less noise power transferred to the DAC.

Can phase noise at the DAC be reduced by using a low noise LPS on the router.

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Possiblyā€¦ but kind of stretching things as an extreme scenarioā€¦

The aim is to reduce noise on the streamer power supply lines and ground plane as much as possible, such that itā€™s clock is as stable as possible. A very stable clock here should result in low clock phase noise into the digital output SPDIF or the i2S interface on its internal analogue output DAC.

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We agree with your comments above about decoupled streamer and DAC making fine tuning of ethernet connection/switch/PSU all irrelevant and unnecessary. Very different from 272 era in this household, where we had a (managed) Cisco making an audible difference.

But now you have me worried that we should have a 555PSDR on our NDX2 transport to reduce phase noise :laughing:

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Well you can try, in my experience that would possibly point to a poorly decoupled DAC if that was obviously different.
The NDX2 by design operates in its own low noise environment very successfully in my opinion.

Of note with first gen Naim streamers and the nDAC which were all more susceptible to various digital sources back then, a 555PS on the NDX feeding an nDAC/555PS was audibly subtly noticeableā€¦ I wouldnā€™t say better SQ, but detectable.
With the NDX2 later, no difference could realistically determined to our ears.

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Thatā€™s kind of as suspected.

Phew.

Ā£4k saved.

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