Sub recommendations to reinforce PMC Twenty-23's

I’m amazed that you feel the need for a sub. The Twenty5.23 absolutely shake the windows in my very large 5x8m room.

But each to there own. Which begs the question, from an integration perspective, isn’t the Twenty5.sub the obvious choice for a seamless performance marriage?

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Hi Errol,
I have a BK Electronics XLS200 sub, that works exceedingly well. Sealed box, several veneer choices, very reasonable cost and British made. I am not using it currently due to change of speakers but this sub is so good I won’t sell it. Suggest you check them out. Excellent quality products.

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I use a Velodyne sub with my N-Sats and am very happy with it. It can be dialled in from your listening position using test tones and on screen real time frequency charts. It was designed for hifi audio as well as home theatre use - highly recommended!

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The DSPeaker Anti Mode 8033SII has automatic setup, with the miniDSP 2x4 you have to programme it manually.

Incidentally I use a miniDSP 2x4 with a custom written programme.

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Although my speakers aren’t exactly small, but they have very limited bass extension.

I use a B&W ASW610XP controlled by a miniDSP 2x4 which does both the crossover and the room correction. The combination works really well, even some HiFi nut friends didn’t realise there was a sub in use until I pointed it out to them and then turned it off! Until that point, they also were under the misapprehension that subs couldn’t be made to work well for music reproduction.

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Hi @Xanthe

custom written program - as in - not available with MiniDSP purchase ?

if you had to do it again - would you do miniDSP or DSPeaker ?

and how much time does all this take - set up - measuring - correcting and final outcome ?

maybe 1 day ?

I used the miniDSP programming toolkit to build a filter set to set the crossover characteristics and two room correction filters. The parameters were iteratively determined from frequency domain and time domain plots (using REW) with further refinement by ear, until I had setting that was both technically and aesthetically near optimal. I then used those settings to optimise the position of the main speakers and the number and position of the bass absorbers, before optimising the sub alignment again.

Getting the whole thing fully optimised (room acoustics, main speakers and sub) took about 5 days

I’d probably still use the miniDSP, however, if I hadn’t feel so sure about my knowledge of acoustics, physics and materials science, I’d have opted for the DSPeaker Anti-Mode.

Thanks @Xanthe

I am in the latter camp…

DSPeaker will cost me Euro 500 landed at home…but minidsp 2x4 available locally for USD 120.

Paradox ?? :grinning:

I also had relative success with the MiniDSP HD but I removed it because, intellectually, I couldn’t accept adding extra circuitry into the signal path. Plus, the MiniDSP is limited to 24/96 and measures poorly on the lab desk. Using this requires an additional ADA conversion before the signal reaches the amplifier. I will admit the device indeed functions and allows room correction and EQ, notably with Dirac. I just didn’t come to grips with the additional manipulation of the audio signal.

am in the same boat - mental block.

but come to think of it the room is the elephant.

there are only 2 ways ie room treatment and / or DSP and i suspect the best is a combination of both

even if we have no subwoofer i guess…

i hope to go down this road once the lockdown and all is completed and things are normal again.

best wishes

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Yes, can have your cake and eat it with with an effectively aligned, calibrated and dialled in sub/sat system. Fwiw, i am currently using passive SCM19’s and the whole system is being supported by a Gotham g213 v2 crossed over at 90Hz. This quality of LF this sub/sat system produces surpasses the LF performance of any bookshelf or floorstanding loudspeakers i’ve heard so far.

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That is why, in my system, the LF response of the main system is left to have it’s natural roll off rather than being filtered by the DSP box.

The DSP box is only in line with the sub as the ear/brain combination is much less discriminating (and less sensitive) to the lower frequencies handled by the sub, so non-ideal behavior from the AtoD, DSP and the DAC are much less important in the feed to the sub.

@Xanthe That’s makes perfect sense and I could live with doing the same if I were using a sub. Not currently the case for me, but I’ve had a speaker change project in mind for many months now anyway. The challenge will be to make the right decision when the times comes. Thanks for your clarification.

Similar thought here from another Twenty5.23 user…

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Musicraft, The Gotham g213 v2 seems to be impressive, but at £17k it would cost more than the whole of my existing system combined and take up most of the floor space currently occupied by my Fraim rack. I can still dream. My room’s only 4m x 3.5m so there real constraints. The ATC SCM19’s do look like they ought to be on my audition list though.

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Well, if it doesn’t work out, don’t crow on about it, please.

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Corvid, means crow like

There are 19 Magpies roosting in a tree at the bottom of my garden. Do I need to self isolate as at the moment I dont feel too bad?

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Oh! …(groan)…note to self, I need to be prepared for list humour. :slight_smile:

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